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If he was in a Troupe would he have been in same area for 3 to 4 years.

Maryb

Thanks Mary
The Chaplin family were touring in Lancashire in 1914 They were like the pop stars of the day. Charlie went to USA to appear in films in 1914 and his brother Sydney stayed in Uk to continue with the act. They were part of a touring troupe call Fred Karno's Circus. At this time there were two theatres in St Helens that I know of- The Hippodrome and The Theatre Royal. I wonder if Victor Rolfe was part of the troupe. The Edith I have found would be 30 yrs old in 1911, so it could be possible that they were "an item" How interesting is that!!

I can't find a thing about him,Charlie Chaplin born 1889.

Maryb
When you view original 1911 census it says he is 36=1875

Wow thanks Mary and Jonesey. Could this be my Grandfather? ha ha
Also the name Chaplin is interesting!!! is he related to Charlie Chaplin? Now that really would be interesting. The plot thickens. I will now start a search on Rolfe Victor, Oh my goodness regards Eileen

Wonder if Rolfe Victor an ACTOR could be a connection,it was said that Aubery's dad could have been connected t othe theatre!

Maryb

Sched Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born Original
census
image

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

206 TURNER, James Oliver Head Married M 26 1885 Labourer Tramway Shed Staffs Stone VIEW
206 TURNER, Elizabeth Ann Wife Married
1 years F 26 1885 Household Sutton St Helens Lanc VIEW
206 DIXON, Frederick George Boarder Single M 24 1887 Butcher Salesman Cumberland Penrith VIEW
206 SILLIR, Robert Boarder Single M 32 1879 Assurance Agent Norfolk Binham VIEW
206 LEIGH, Charles Boarder Married M 35 1876 Auctioneer Linoleum London Bow VIEW
206 LEIGH, Maggie Wife Married
2 years F 23 1888 Glasgow Scot VIEW
>>>206 CHAPLIN, Rolfe Victor Boarder Widower M 38 1873 Actor London Middlesex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
22772 Reference:
RG14PN22772 RG78PN1333 RD456 SD5 ED18 SN206

Registration District:
Prescot Sub District:
St Helens Enumeration District:
18 Parish:
St Helens

Address:
18 Woodville Street St Helens County:
Lancashire


See >>> above.

Might this be pertinant regarding an earlier statement that you made?

"The family story is that the birth father was a "theatrical"

Maybe 18 Woodville street was indeed a lodging house for theatricals.

Hi could I beg the help of all you good people. I am now trying the trace my father's, father, name unknown. Its going to be a long shot. I have details from the 1911 census of 18 Woodville Street, I have names and dob but no job descriptions of the residents-this is the info I need. My Dad was registered from this address in Nov 1914. I realise that these people could have moved on. Is there anyway of tracing who lived at this address in the year 1913/1914 thanks Eileen

Hi Mary
The Edith Hewitt I found DOB1883 died in 1943 so she would 60 years old. She is buried in St Helens Cemetary. I suppose I need to get her death Cert to get further info. Thanks

Name: Edith Hewitt
Death Registration Month/Year: 1943
Age at death (estimated): 60
Registration district: Prescot
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 701

Eileen,the death you found for a Edith hewitt 1943 what was her age on that as i can't seem to find it.

Found 3 births Edith hewitt 1882 Salford died 1882
Edith Warrington 1879 died 1882
Edith Chorlton 1878 died 1878.

Maryb

Dont know if you got my last message so I will do it again,
To Mary and Jonesey
Thanks for all this detailed info.
I cant beleive that I have been searching on and off for many years for my Dads family, to no avail. Now through the generosity of GR members I have so much info to look at. I now know for sure that there is a Skerry Hewitt Smart connection. I will keep on searching for Edith, and I will keep in touch and let you know when I find her
Regards Eileen

I can see what you mean Mary but unfortunately I do not think that it is Eedie when comparing the "E" with the one for Elsie May Burgess on the same page in the enumerators book.

Plus:
Births Dec 1890 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smart Nellie Prescot 8b 685

Could someone look at 1901 census for John Smart 1860 and Ellen nee Hewitt.

I don't know wether its me imagining this but when you look at original the one what is supposed to be nellie looks to me like Eedie but she is only 10.

On 1891 John and Ellen do have a Nellie age 5months,but it sure looks like Eedie to me on 1901.

Maryb

No its probably me who is mistaken all those children except Margaret at home with John Smart and Ellen in 1911 including NELLIE born 1890.
93,Horace St St helens.

This could this be Grace in 1881.

1881:
Name: Grace Pemberton
Age: 2
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Eccleston in Prescot
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 131 Westfield St
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 17a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Pemberton 46
Ellen Pemberton 48
Mary Pemberton 22
Margt. Pemberton 17
Eliza Pemberton 12
Grace Pemberton 2

Marriages Jun 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PEMBERTON Hannah Prescott 8b 958
SMART George Frederick Prescott 8b 958

1881 1,Havelock St Eccleston in prescot.
George @ 1853 bristol grocer and bottle maker
hannah 1854 st helens
George f 1880? son
Frederick brother born 1858 Scotland
Thomas born warrington 1865 Brother
William James Warrington 1867.Brother

Maryb

Definately a wierd one. Here is the full 1911 details (Thanks to Mary) plus the smart family back to 1891 but no trace as yet for 1881:

1911 census transcription details for: 70 Claughton St St Helens Lancashire

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN22771 RG78PN1333 RD456 SD5 ED17 SN169


Reg. District: Prescot Sub District: St Helens
Parish: St Helens Enum. District: 17

Address: 70 Claughton St St Helens Lancashire
County: Lancashire


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOODSTOCK, Frederick Head Married
9 years M 31 1880 Glass Flattener St Helens Lanc

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOODSTOCK, Grace Wife Married
9 years F 31 1880 St Helens Lanc

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOODSTOCK, Frederick Son M 3 1908 St Helens Lanc

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOODSTOCK, Norman Son M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 St Helens Lanc

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMART, Austin Brother-In-Law Single M 21 1890 Glass Trimmer St Helens Lanc

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMART, Ellen Sister-In-Law Single F 27 1884 St Helens Lanc

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMART, Mary Sister-In-Law Single F 25 1886 St Helens Lanc

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WOODSTOCK, Ethel Sister Single F 28 1883 Shop Assistant Liverpool Lanc


>>Marriages Sep 1901 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMART Grace Prescot 8b 1364
WOODSTOCK Frederic Prescot 8b 1364


>>1901:
Name: Grace Smart
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: St Helen
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul and St Thomas
Town: St Helen
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 252
Household Members: Name Age
George Smart 50 born Bristol, Gloucestershire
Grace Smart 22
George Smart 20
Nellie Smart 18 (Ellen?)
Austin Smart 13


>>1891:
Name: Grace Smart
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: St Helens, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Eccleston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Prescot
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Smart 38 born Bristol, Gloucestershire
Grace Smart 13
George Smart 11
Nelly Smart 9 (Ellen?)
Mary Smart 6


>>1881
Cannot spot them at present.


>>
Births Mar 1879 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smart Grace Prescott 8b 761

Births Dec 1882 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smart Ellen Prescot 8b 704

Births Mar 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smart Mary Elizabeth Prescot 8b 703

Births Sep 1888 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SMART Austin Prescot 8b 663

Here it is 70,Claughton St
Fred Woodstock 1880 glass flatener married 9years
Grace 1880
Frederick 1908 son
Norman 1911 son
Austin Smart brother in law single 1890
Ellen Smart sister in law single 1884
Mary Smart sister in law single 1886
Ethel Woodstock born Liverpool single 1883
All others born St Helens Lancs.

Maryb

I just put St helens in seach and it came up with list,this was after I viewed original and saw there were more numbers,but couldn't get into them.

Hi Jonesey that really is odd cos I know the property is still there today- and I am sure that a few years ago I looked at this address and the smart family were in residence in 1911 plus in 1914 this was the address on my dads birth cert. as being his place of birth. Spooky!!!!!!!!!!!!

Something odd appears to be happening.

On FMP the only house record showing up for Claughton Street, St Helens (Prescot reg district) is house number 14 (The family living there are called Bridge).

On http://fmpbsol.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx a search is failing to find any record of Claughton Street, St Helens.

Hi all you good people, can you help. Would someone look at the 1911 census for 70 claughton street st helens lancashire- who is living there, and the ages and occupations of the residents. thanks