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Okay enthusiasts now is the time to kick in and wrap this one up.

I've now gone thru Steve Halliwell's tree and it does tie up and with Steve Whitwam's help goes back a long way (1634) BUT THE BIG QUESTION REMAINS IS MY ELIZABETH HELLAWELL THE SAME AS STEVE'S BETTY

Steve doesn't say much about Betty but in my tree she marries Joseph Baxter and they have a number of kids including Mary (1820) who is my great grandfather's (John Hellawell Shaw) mother. I know the latter for certain because she appears on his birth certificate which was handed down to me - the rest is supposition.

How do I confirm my Elizabeth and Steve's Betty are one in the same. Steve Whitwam might be the answer but I never have success in contacting him

Janet, mostly suppostion - see below

Hello Harold
Just a question. If your relative Elizabeth Hellawell married to Joseph Baxter always referred to herself on the census as Betty, what other proof have you that she was christened Elizabeth and not Betty (I know these names are interchangeable) but sometime people were christened with what we would describe as nicknames. There seems to be several Elizabeth Baxters and Betty Baxters in this area. The children could be baptised at Marsden (chapel of ease?)and not at Almonbury as I previously mentioned.-JLe
also why do you think that Elizabeths father is James-J

Okay Ozi, but still tough to get one's head around. Let me try and be simplistic and add and subtract as you see appropriate. Remember I am only focussing on my tree

1. John (hopefully he is a cloth dresser and not coss dresser) is brother to my Elizabeth.

2. They are both POSSIBLY children, along with Hannah, of James Hellawell and Mary Sykes.

3. James Hellawell was son of John Hellawell and Sarah Perkin married 1760

Brilliant, but is there any evidence that the Betty Hellawell who married Joseph Baxter is this very girl.

Could ask Steve Whitwam but he previously has not replied to me.

These are the above findings in a better format for reading:

1841 Census for Meltham, note James the son is living next door.
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK 1 HELLAWELL JOHN 40 CLOTH DRESSER Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL NANCY 40 Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL ELIZABETH 15 Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL RICHARD 12 Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL MARY 10 Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL ELLEN 8 Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL HANNAH 6 Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL SARAH 4 Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK 1 HELLAWELL JAMES 15 CLOTH DRESSER Y
32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HOLSTEAD WILLIAM 15 MULE SPINNER YKS

Almondbury PC marriages 1821
10 09 1821 HELLAWELL JOHN WOODHOUSE NANCY BOTH OF THIS PARISH -

B Marsden Parish Church Baptisms 1785 -
1812 10 01 1795 A HELLIWELL BETTY JAMES - ING HEAD CLOTHIER
26 11 1784 A HELLIWELL ELIZABETH THOMAS MARY GATE HEAD -
A HELLIWELL HANNAH THOMAS - ING HEAD CLOTHIER
26 09 1792 A HELLIWELL HANNAH WILLIAM - SCOUT CLOTHIER
A HELLIWELL HANNAH JAMES - ING HEAD CLOTHIER
A HELLIWELL HANNAH JAMES - LINGARDS WOOD CLOTHIER
A HELLIWELL JAMES SAMUEL - ING HEAD CLOTHIER
23 07 1786 A HELLIWELL JOHN THOMAS - CROW HILL CLOTHIER
13 01 1799 A HELLIWELL JOHN JAMES MARY ING HEAD CLOTHIER
A HELLIWELL JOSEPH THOMAS - CROW HILL CLOTHIER
22 08 1789 A HELLIWELL JOSEPH WILLIAM - SCOUT CLOTHIER
A HELLIWELL MARTHA THOMAS - ING HEAD CLOTHIER
A HELLIWELL SAMUEL WILLIAM - SCOUT CLOTHIER
26 03 1797 A HELLIWELL SAMUEL THOMAS - ING HEAD CLOTHIER
13 01 1786 A HELLIWELL SARAH - HANNAH GATE HEAD SINGLE WOMAN
10 10 1790 A HELLIWELL SARAH WILLIAM - ING HEAD CLOTHIER

Almondbury PC marriages 1794
04 09 1794 HELLAWELL JAMES SYKES MARY BOTH OF THIS PARISH -

B Marsden PC Baptisms 1734 - 1785
02 08 1772 A HELLIWELL BETTY JOHN MARY ING HEAD -
27 03 1774 A HELLIWELL BETTY JOHN SARAH ING HEAD -
26 04 1746 A HELLIWELL HANNAH WILLIAM SARAH MARSDEN -
A HELLIWELL JAMES JOHN SARAH ING HEAD -
19 02 1763 A HELLIWELL JOHN JOHN SARAH ING HEAD -
17 10 1742 A HELLIWELL JOSEPH WILLIAM SARAH BRIDGE END -
19 02 1763 A HELLIWELL JOSEPH JOHN SARAH ING HEAD -
A HELLIWELL MARY WILLIAM SARAH BRIDGE END -
12 08 1761 A HELLIWELL MARY JOHN SARAH ING HEAD -
28 10 1768 A HELLIWELL SAMUEL JOHN SARAH ING HEAD -
A HELLIWELL SARAH WILLIAM SARAH BRIDGE END SCHOOLMASTER
26 05 1771 A HELLIWELL SARAH JOSEPH MARY ING HEAD -
24 03 1765 A HELLIWELL THOMAS JOHN SARAH ING HEAD -
A HELLIWELL WILLIAM JOSEPH MARY GATE HEAD -
25 07 1779 A HELLIWELL WILLIAM - HANNAH GATE HEAD SINGLE WOMAN

Huddersfield PC Marriages 1760
03 07 1760 HELLAWELL JOHN PARKIN SARAH MARSDEN P.AL/MARSDEN -
B 1.JOHN HELLAWELL born C. 1735, MARSDEN ?, occupation CLOTH DRESSER, married 03 JUL 1760, in HUDDERSFIELD PARISH CHURCH, SARAH PARKIN, born C. 1735, MARSDEN ?, died SEP 1802, LINGARDS WOOD MARSDEN, buried: 09 SEP 1802, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH.
JOHN died MAR 1796, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), buried: 04 MAR 1796, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH. OF MARSDEN PARISH OF ALMONDBURY WHEN MARRIED 1760 SARAH: OF MARSDEN PARISH OF HUDDERSFIELD WHEN MARRIED IN 1760
Children: i) MARY HELLAWELL born 1761, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), baptised 12 AUG 1761, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH.
ii) JOSEPH HELLAWELL born 1763, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), baptised 19 FEB 1763, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH, died MAR 1763, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), buried: 04 MAR 1763, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH.
iii)JOHN HELLAWELL born 1763, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), baptised 19 FEB 1763, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH, died NOV 1792, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), buried: 26 NOV 1792, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH. APPEARS TO HAVE DIED UNMARRIED BURIAL REGISTER REFERING TO HIM AS THE SON OF JOHN
iv)THOMAS HELLAWELL born 1765, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), baptised 24 MAR 1765, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH.
v)SAMUEL HELLAWELL born 1768,

Just got this from another GRU user who had contact with Steve Whitwam in 2003 - very complicated and not sure what it all means

From: steve whitwam [mailto:steve@@whitwam.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 21 August 2003 10:44 To: Steve Halliwell Subject: Re: Marsden Parish Records about 1800 Hello Steve Thanks for the details, I've now been able to locate the family with certainty and have managed to trace them back to c. 1735 from the marsden parish registers. I'm enclosing a word doc with all details I have amassed. I'm also enclosing some extracts from my parish register indexes to help prove the connections. I could not find edward hellawell in 1841 where was he, how are you sure he's the son of John and Nancy ? Nancy is the 'nick name' for Ann The name Hellawell as you'll be aware can be spelt many ways, the name which appears to have become the 'norm' in the colne valley is Hellawell, I've entered all my findings as this name, you may find the original records have many various other spelling, I notice your branch of the family has settled for Halliwell. before the mid 1850's not many people could spell or for that matter were particularly bothered how their names were spelt, this was quite often determined by the clergy who entered their names into registers. If I can help any further please let me know. Have you any other details about John and Nancy and their children ? Regards Steve 1841 Census for Meltham, note James the son is living next door. 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK 1 HELLAWELL JOHN 40 CLOTH DRESSER Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL NANCY 40 Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL ELIZABETH 15 Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL RICHARD 12 Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL MARY 10 Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL ELLEN 8 Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL HANNAH 6 Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HELLAWELL SARAH 4 Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK 1 HELLAWELL JAMES 15 CLOTH DRESSER Y 32 6 7 SUNNY BANK HOLSTEAD WILLIAM 15 MULE SPINNER YKS Almondbury PC marriages 1821 10 09 1821 HELLAWELL JOHN WOODHOUSE NANCY BOTH OF THIS PARISH - B Marsden Parish Church Baptisms 1785 - 1812 10 01 1795 A HELLIWELL BETTY JAMES - ING HEAD CLOTHIER 26 11 1784 A HELLIWELL ELIZABETH THOMAS MARY GATE HEAD - A HELLIWELL HANNAH THOMAS - ING HEAD CLOTHIER 26 09 1792 A HELLIWELL HANNAH WILLIAM - SCOUT CLOTHIER A HELLIWELL HANNAH JAMES - ING HEAD CLOTHIER A HELLIWELL HANNAH JAMES - LINGARDS WOOD CLOTHIER A HELLIWELL JAMES SAMUEL - ING HEAD CLOTHIER 23 07 1786 A HELLIWELL JOHN THOMAS - CROW HILL CLOTHIER 13 01 1799 A HELLIWELL JOHN JAMES MARY ING HEAD CLOTHIER A HELLIWELL JOSEPH THOMAS - CROW HILL CLOTHIER 22 08 1789 A HELLIWELL JOSEPH WILLIAM - SCOUT CLOTHIER A HELLIWELL MARTHA THOMAS - ING HEAD CLOTHIER A HELLIWELL SAMUEL WILLIAM - SCOUT CLOTHIER 26 03 1797 A HELLIWELL SAMUEL THOMAS - ING HEAD CLOTHIER 13 01 1786 A HELLIWELL SARAH - HANNAH GATE HEAD SINGLE WOMAN 10 10 1790 A HELLIWELL SARAH WILLIAM - ING HEAD CLOTHIER Almondbury PC marriages 1794 04 09 1794 HELLAWELL JAMES SYKES MARY BOTH OF THIS PARISH - B Marsden PC Baptisms 1734 - 1785 02 08 1772 A HELLIWELL BETTY JOHN MARY ING HEAD - 27 03 1774 A HELLIWELL BETTY JOHN SARAH ING HEAD - 26 04 1746 A HELLIWELL HANNAH WILLIAM SARAH MARSDEN - A HELLIWELL JAMES JOHN SARAH ING HEAD - 19 02 1763 A HELLIWELL JOHN JOHN SARAH ING HEAD - 17 10 1742 A HELLIWELL JOSEPH WILLIAM SARAH BRIDGE END - 19 02 1763 A HELLIWELL JOSEPH JOHN SARAH ING HEAD - A HELLIWELL MARY WILLIAM SARAH BRIDGE END - 12 08 1761 A HELLIWELL MARY JOHN SARAH ING HEAD - 28 10 1768 A HELLIWELL SAMUEL JOHN SARAH ING HEAD - A HELLIWELL SARAH WILLIAM SARAH BRIDGE END SCHOOLMASTER 26 05 1771 A HELLIWELL SARAH JOSEPH MARY ING HEAD - 24 03 1765 A HELLIWELL THOMAS JOHN SARAH ING HEAD - A HELLIWELL WILLIAM JOSEPH MARY GATE HEAD - 25 07 1779 A HELLIWELL WILLIAM - HANNAH GATE HEAD SINGLE WOMAN Huddersfield PC Marriages 1760 03 07 1760 HELLAWELL JOHN PARKIN SARAH MARSDEN P.AL/MARSDEN - B 1.JOHN HELLAWELL born C. 1735, MARSDEN ?, occupation CLOTH DRESSER, married 03 JUL 1760, in HUDDERSFIELD PARISH CHURCH, SARAH PARKIN, born C. 1735, MARSDEN ?, died SEP 1802, LINGARDS WOOD MARSDEN, buried: 09 SEP 1802, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH. JOHN died MAR 1796, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), buried: 04 MAR 1796, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH. OF MARSDEN PARISH OF ALMONDBURY WHEN MARRIED 1760 SARAH: OF MARSDEN PARISH OF HUDDERSFIELD WHEN MARRIED IN 1760 Children: iMARY HELLAWELL born 1761, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), baptised 12 AUG 1761, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH. iiJOSEPH HELLAWELL born 1763, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), baptised 19 FEB 1763, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH, died MAR 1763, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), buried: 04 MAR 1763, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH. iiiJOHN HELLAWELL born 1763, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), baptised 19 FEB 1763, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH, died NOV 1792, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), buried: 26 NOV 1792, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH. APPEARS TO HAVE DIED UNMARRIED BURIAL REGISTER REFERING TO HIM AS THE SON OF JOHN ivTHOMAS HELLAWELL born 1765, ING HEAD MARSDEN (ALM), baptised 24 MAR 1765, MARSDEN PARISH CHURCH. vSAMUEL HELLAWELL born 1768,

Just to confirm these are the marriages of females with the surname 'Hellewell' from 1785-1796.
17-09-1787 Edmund Kershaw m Hannah Hellawell botp
23-05-1793 Joseph Bamforth m Ann Hellewell botp
08-02-1790 James Brearley m Mary Hellewell Hudd/otp
27-04-1794 Joseph Platt m Nanny Hellewell botp
14-01-1793 Daniel Haigh m Elizabeh Helliwell botp
25-10-1792 Samuel Meller m Martha Hellowell botp.

Note: there are four alternative spellings-JLe

Yes please Janet

Hello Harold

I don't know whether you consider the 'familysearch' but a quick look there I would say it doesn't appear as if James and William are brothers.
The information which I gave on the marriages at Almondbury were directly from the fhs transcriptions made by the Huddersfield FHS, these useful little books have been transcribed by volunteers to make our lives easier and help speed up our research. Whilst I have some books on baptisms I don't have the Almondbury Parish records at the moment. Whilst familysearch is helpful it isn't quite as informative as the transcribed books. If you want the other names of the female Helliwells who were married at the same time as James I can let you have them.-JLe

Do you think William is James brother

Hello Harold
Yes I remember the last lot of children where it turned out to be two families but this time I don't think so .
The gaps are acceptable and probably the first Hannah may have died. The father is entered as James but just John has the addition of the mother Mary. Worry not about the spelling. I just had a look at the female Helliwells to get married (1785-1796), there are six with four different spellings. These could all or some be siblings of the James and William.-JLe

Now that's interesting - she called herself Betty when she appeared with Joseph Baxter and children in 1841 census Linthwaite. What about all these different spellings or is there 2 families - we've had this before

1. HANNAH HELLIWELL - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Christening: 05 MAR 1797 Almondbury, Yorkshire, England
2. HANNAH HALLIWELL - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Christening: 05 MAY 1802 Almondbury, Yorkshire, England
3. BETTY HALLEWELL - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Female Christening: 10 JAN 1795 Almondbury, Yorkshire, England
4. JOHN HELLEWELL - International Genealogical Index - British Isles
Gender: Male Christening: 13 JAN 1799 Almondbury, Yorkshire, England
Only John's birth states the mother as Mary-JLe

Thanks Janet do we know if James Hellewell and Mary Sykes had any children if not an Elizabeth then any others

Hello Harold
Whilst it may be hard to confirm the marriage of your 'James Hellawell' what I can confirm is that if both parties lived in the same area they would be married at All Hallows Almondbury. Remember that at this time Almondbury was the town and Huddersfield hadn't been established in the way we know it today. In the Marriages of Almondbury from 1785-1796 there were only two men called Hellewell married. A James Hellewell and a William Hellewell. If any couple lived in Crosland Moor, Linthwaite, Lockwood, they all came under the parish of Almondbury. There was nowhere else for them to get married. -JLe

Thanks mgnv it worked - don't know what I was doing wrong the first time.

I'll have to think how best to make use of this list. Some names spring up fro my tree Sutcliffe, Hill, Radcliffe, Sykes - I'll have to see if I can make a connection in the censuses . Of course my great grandfather is John Hellawell Shaw is there but the others?? - well that is the big question

Harry - to implement Tracy's initial search, go to FreeBMD's search screen:
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Select the type "All Types" (the alternatives are B, M or D)
For First name(s), enter *Hellawell and leave everything else blank, then click on Find.

I actually got 83 hits, 48 of which were births.

Depending on the time of day, FreeBMD might find more complex searches too lengthy. In that case, you can shorten them by changing the type, or limiting the date range.

As a footnote, FreeBMD have transcribed almost all the 942 registers thru 1915. There are 25 that are 96-99% complete, 3 that are 90-92% complete (D1845q3, D1859q1, D1863q2), and 1 that's 82% done (M1887q2).

Tracey, what you said was:
When you do a search only enter the forename of *Hellawell (including the star) this will give you all the people with Hellawell in their name.

That would find Sarah Hellawell Smith, but not Sarah Ann Hellawell Smith.

You could be right Janet but kind of hard to confirm. Certainly there was a lot of mixing between Hellawell (or Hellewell/ Baxter/ Sykes. From other people's trees I have James Hellewell (b1713) marrying Elizabeth Baxter, sister of Samuel Baxter gt grandfather of Joseph Baxter who married Elizabeth Hellawell.

And unbelievably James Baxter (1609) married a Mary Sykes. Oh, and just so we don't get complacent Martha Hellwell b1729, dad James Helliwell, married into the Lindleys (Reuben) who eventually linked up with the Bowers on the other side of my family.

So it is not too suprising I have been lumbered with this silly name

Mgnv,

I was only ever looking for the name Hellawell as a middle name anyhow...so how did i get that wrong?

The query wasn't about first or third names....but second names!


Tracey x