Find Ancestors

thanks Jan, it was worth a thought

Hi Anthony.
a journeyman is someone who has trained as an apprentice in a trade and works for someone else.
Jan

Thanks Astra
Could you email please, I think you have my email address.
Any idea how I find out what his first name was?
How can I take this further to help me in my search please?

Right found him.
No first name given but his address is 7 Accommodation Square, York Road Leeds. He volunteered in 1914 and was still with his unit in 1920. If you want a copy I will E mail it to you.

Sent

Can anyone help please
On Ancestry - Military records - England, National Roll of the Great War 1914 - 1918, put E Babington in search, there is an E Babington L/Corporal MGC at the top of the list, there's a ref Z1197 if that helps.

How do I find out his first name and how do I take this further to help me in my search please

Still waiting for Ellen Jane Kirby's birth and Williams marriage certs.

the houses back of 73 wattville were a row of " two up two down " terraced houses as were the back houses in Alfred street which stood on the bank of the main Snow hill to wolverhampton line

there was an enclosed courtyard behind No., 73 used to deliver papers there in 1953

Must get myself off to visit the few remaining Birmingham back-to-backs! My great-grandmother lived along the same street in 1871 so would be very interesting.
jan

Thanks Jan, I now understand about there being a house facing the street which was numbered as normal and there being other 'houses' behind it to give 3 Bk of 73 Watville Rd or 5/19 Alfred St but what I didn't get was 5 Court 6 Catherine St etc. Jonesey sent this as a pm for anyone who's interested: -

Probably the easiest way to describe such properties is that they were dwellings within courtyards off a street. 5 Court 6 Catherine St for example would be dwelling number 5 within courtyard number 6 in Catherine Street.

Generally speaking they would be small rather poorly constructed premises designed to provide cheap accommodation within urban communities. Birmingham and the Black Country had hundreds of such courts and dwellings.

There are many books in public libraries with illustrations of such dwellings


See also the posting from Jonesey on 18th July on page 2 of this thread

Got the message! Re. the back-to-backs. It's a bit complicated and I don't fully understand to be homest. However, there seems to have been a house facing the road which was numbered as normal. Then you would have "back of" this house. The courts were each numbered and the houses then numbered individually.
I have found it only makes sense when I look at a census or electoral register.
Jan

Good to see your update Anthony. I feel you will get there in the end but it's hard work isn't it - I admire your perseverance. What a family! You would think this name would be a piece of cake but no such luck. Still, the sense of acheivement wil be great when you solve it. But what will you do with your time after that?!
Jan x

Hello all my loyal and supportive friends, I feel I can call you friends now we've been through so much together.
The search goes on but painfully slow, still no sign of the copy marriage cert for William.
This is part of William's son's latest email to me: -

just a couple of quick points:

1: I have Just sent for dad's birt cert., he was born 1913, it should be here by end of month. I will let you have all details then.

2: I remember Lillian and her family they lived near top of windmill lane smethwick I can remember going there at Xmas when I very little. Had forgoten all about them so thanks for reminding me

3: 4/19 Alfred street was the house I grew up in (we moved there in 1941). I have been unable to find the right alfred street in census. I was curious to know who lived there in 1911.

So you were right Astra to insist that I take a re-look at the birth you found in 1913, I think we can assume that the death you found will also prove to be correct.

I notice that he says that the family moved to 4/19 Alfred St in 1941 but, I think it was you Vanessa who found a Nellie Clarke (Ellen Clarke) there on the 1920 census and at 4 Court 2 Alfred St in 1922, being joined in 1930 by Nellie Jane Babbington, by 1935 they were both joined by William Clarke. The address 4/19 Alfred St is also on Rosie May's marriage cert. I'll ask him a little more about this when he's managed to take in all that we've found out.

I know that you said BrummieJan how much of a headache those back-to-back houses gave you when you first started so perhaps you or someone else can tell me how the numbering worked and would these 2 addresses been close to one another.. As Nellie Clarke was at 4/19 in 1920 and 2 Court 4 in 1922 and later but Rose May's address in 1923 was 4/19.
Ah! just realised Rose May's bridegroom was also at 4/19 so maybe they were living there as a couple before they married after Nellie had moved to 2 Court 4.

I am starting to feel like an honorary Babbington!!
jan

Hi Anthony.
Thanks for the PM with the good news. I have been away for a few days but from what I have read we are still waiting for the marriage certificate which seems to be taking forever to arrive! I never was the world's most patient soul.
I will have a more thorough read-through of the new postings later but everything I have looked at so far seems to be very positive.

Good Morning
Would you like the good news or the bad? It's good that we've made contact after all these years, I've just given him access to my tree and vice versa for the moment, I thought we could both take a good look to see what we have and haven't got and then ask questions later. I knew that there'd be a catch - he's only got himself on his tree!
Apparently he's in touch with Williams grandson, whose mother wants him to trace her mothers side of the family so William's son thought he'd join in and trace his father's side, as you say Jan if only he knew...............
For the moment it's back to waiting for the copy of his marriage cert to arrive for me, should be any day now and waiting for Williams grandson to return from his holls.

Goodness, you better not tell him about this thread or he might run away!

Only joking. I hope the two of you can get it sorted.


Ozi

Thanks for the PM Anthony. Great news, but I suspect William's son doesn't know what he's letting himself in for!! But he - or one of his family - might just have a tiny clue which will help.
Fingers crossed.
jan

Pleased to hear you've made contact with William's son.

I had to smile at the comment of being able to help him with his father's family.

I was also wondering what year William was born.

Christine

More really good news - I have just made contact with one of William's sons, part of his message to me: -

yes we are related. I was the cousin who reguarly cycled and fished with your brother roy circa 1953-56.
I would appreciate an exchange of emails as you may be able to assist in my fathers side of trre. my contact is:

Oh dear! he thinks I may be able to help him, if only he knew all the ups and downs I've shared with you all. So things can only get better from now on or have we all thought that before?
Will keep you all informed

Morning Everyone
Nothing to add just waiting for Williams grandson to return from his holls - gosh suppose he's gone for 2 whole weeks or even longer! and copy of Williams marriage cert which I sent for before I knew about the grandson