Find Ancestors

June has opened the pm I sent her and thanked me for it.


Lots for her to work at on here! Cx

Sylv,

I cannot find a Gladys BMD birth for either a Wellsman or a Clark ?

.... and i cannot find her on the 1911?

EDIT:

Hmmm could this be her actual birth registration?

Births Mar 1900 Clarke Gladys Esther W Lambeth 1d 439

The W being Wellsman?

Tracey x

Golly, you lot have been working hard for June.

I will send her a pm and let her know just in case she thinks the thread has finished.


Cx

This is your 1911 Sylv.

1911 RG14PN2282 RG78PN77 RD26 SD4 ED32 SN205
Reg. District: Wandsworth Sub District: Clapham
Address: 26 Pentney Road Balham SW County: London
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WELLMAN, George Head Married M 36 1875 Taxi Cab Driver St Lukes London
WELLMAN, Marion Elizabeth Wife Married F 34 1877 St Pancras London
WELLMAN, George William Son M 15 1896 School News Boy Islington London
WELLMAN, Marion Elizabeth Daughter F 11 1900 School Islington London
WELLMAN, Florence Ellen Daughter F 3 1908 St Jhon Wood London
WELLMAN, Leslie Henry Son M 2 1909 Toating London
WELLMAN, Edith Alice Daughter F 0 (2 MONTHS) 1911 Balham London

Not convinced she's a Marion, the image looks more like Maria.

Tracey x

Emily's marriage


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Emily Wellsman
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1882
Spouse Name: Arthur Emons
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Aug 1906
Parish: St Paul, Old Ford
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: George Wellsman
Spouse Father Name: Thomas William Emons


from iamge:-

Emily

Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- Old Ford, London
Fahter's occupation:- Cellarman (doesn't say he is deceased)

Arthur

Bachelor
Box Maker
Address:- Old Ford London
Father's occupation:- Labourer

Witnesses:- Thomas Edward Edrop (??? sp), Alma Annie Bennett


sylvia

Amelia Ann's marriage


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Amelia Ann Wellsman
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Spouse Name: William John Griffiths
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 19 Sep 1903
Parish: St Philip the Evangelist, Arlington Square
County: Middlesex
Borough: Islington
Father Name: George Wellsman
Spouse Father Name: William Henry Griffiths


from image:-

Amelia Ann

Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 65 Arlington Street
Father's occupation: Labourer (deceased)

William

Age 22
Bachelor
Occupation:- Under Warehouseman
Address:- 17 Packingotn Street
Father's occupation:- Bricklayer

Witnesses:- E Wellsman and George Parker



sylvia

I wonder if this is William George Wellsman in 1901 ...... it is Wellsman on the image, and I have sent in a correction

If so, then the marriage to Mary Elizabeth in 1907 was his second marriage, even though he called himself a Bachelor!


1901 Census

Name: George Wellman <<<<<<<<< Wellsman on image
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1878
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Mary E
Gender: Male
Where born: St Luke, London, England

Civil parish: Willesden
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Hendon
Sub-registration district: Willesden

George Wellman 23 Cab Driver Groom
Mary E Wellman 23 b.ca 1878, Soho, London
George W Wellman 3 b.ca 1898, New North Rd, London
Mary E Wellman 1 6 months b.ca 1899, New North Rd, London
George Wellman 10 months b.ca 1900, Kilburn, London

Address:- 4 Chichester Rd


I couldn't see a death for Mary E




it might be worth a look on the 1911, to see if this family can be found on there.


However ... George's occupation on this census would fit with William George's apparent service with the Kimberly Light Horse in 1901 (Boer War time of course)


sylvia

Just as a matter of interest, there is a WW1 Pension Record for William George Wellsman

Had served for 28 days with the Kimberley Light Horse, 1901, discharged medically unfit


Next of Kin:-
Mary Elizabeth Wellsman, Wife
Address:- 19 Ashcroft Rd, Bow E

Son:- William John, born 30-6-08, Mile End


Called Up 5 July 1916
Service Number 28493

Posted to the Yorks & Lancs 4th Res 1-09-16

Transferred to Royal Flying Corps 7-03-17
Service Number (changed to) 65868


Discharged, no longer medically fit for service 27-12-17

permanently excluded from liablity to medical reexamination





sylvia

and THIS is the 1881 Census for William George (also known as George William) Wellsman who married Mary Elizabeth in 1907


Note his sister's name


1881 Census

Name: William Geo. Wellsman
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Wm.Geo.
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: Horsely Down

Civil parish: Shoreditch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 49 Monyer St

Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Shoreditch
Sub-registration district: Hoxton New Town

Wm.Geo. Wellsman 34 b.ca 1847, Bethnal Green, Wine Cooper
Emily Wellsman 34 b.ca 1847, Cripplegate
William Geo. Wellsman 5
Amelia Ann Wellsman 3 b.ca 1878, Horsely Down



and the same family in 1891 .......... with the addition of younger sister Emily

1891 Census

Name: George W Wellsman
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1876
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William G
Mother's Name: Emily
Gender: Male
Where born: M St Johns Horsleydown, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Edmonton
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Edmonton
Sub-registration district: Edmonton

William G Wellsman 44 b.ca 1847, St Luke, London, Bottle Washer
Emily Wellsman 43 b.ca 1848, St Luke, London
George W Wellsman 15 Bottle Washer
Amelia A Wellsman 13 b.ca 1878, St Johns, Horselydown, Surrey
Emily S Wellsman 9 b.ca 1882, St Leonard, Middlesex

Address:- 23 Windmill Road




as I said before


There are TWO William Wellsman, born at about the same time, in London

One was William George Wellsman (sometimes written as George William)

and the other was William Samuel Wellsman


It was William Samuel Wellsman who married Esther in 1899, and had daugther Gladys


It was William George Wellsman who married Elizabeth Harvey in 1907 and had son William


It was William George who had two sisters, Amelia and Emily





sylvia

Off for dinner .... I'll be back in an hour or so




sylvia

Rose is taking a break from GR, and has just sent me a pm

I'm not sure if I should post this, but here goes.


Rose says:-

.......... might help to know that I sent her the 1881, this matches year and place of birth for the William with wife Esther and daughter Gladys

Name: William Welsman
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1877
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Joseph
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Blackfr Rd, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 9 Jessop Road
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 37
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Welsman 43
Sarah Welsman 43
Charles Welsman 14
Henry Welsman 13
James Welsman 9
Joseph Welsman 8
William Welsman 4

and she has just replied

"Rambling Rose i thought he only had 2 sisters Emily and Amelia
he had a George parker related to him both lived windmill rd
june"





June


WHAT do you know ..... defintiively?


and

WHAT do you want to know?




Please reply on the thread.




sylvia

Deaths Dec 1930 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wellsman Esther 49 Epsom 2a 61



Deaths Mar 1916 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wellsman William S 38 Lambeth 1d 303


thesed could be Gladys parents

??

1911 census - household transcription
Person: WELLSMAN, William George
Address: 5 Weaver Street Bethnal Green E

.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WELLSMAN, William George Head Married
4 years M 32 1879 Warehouseman London Bermondsey VIEW
WELLSMAN, Elizabeth Wife Married
4 years F 26 1885 London St Pancras VIEW
WELLSMAN, William Son M 2 1909 London Mile End VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.

it might be very instructive to look on the 1911 census ...... I don't have a sub to it




sylvia

June

you asked for

Gladys Wellsmand (edit:- Wellsman) 1899, mother Esther


so these people ahve very kindly found a Galdys Wellsman born 1899 on the 1901 Census


The information shown on the Census was that the family consisted of:-

William Wellsman 24 b.ca 1877, Blackfriars, London
Esther Wellsman 20 b.ca 1881, High Barnet, Middlesex
Gladys Wellsman 1 b.ca 1900, Clapham, London


Further information was then found for you:-

a) marriage of William Wellsman and Esther

Marriages Mar 1900 (>99%)

Clarke Esther Lambeth 1d 481
Wellsman William Stanley Lambeth 1d 481

.. showing that William had two forenames ... William Stanley


b) a baptism showing that Gladys was probably born before her parents were married

Name: Gladys Herbert Wellsman Clark
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 9 Mar 1900
Mother's Name: Esther Clark
Parish: All Saints, South Lambeth
Borough: Lambeth
County: Middlesex

The address given was 41 Jeffries Road



you will have to buy the marriage certificate to discover the actual date William and Esther were married.



c) Gladys Esther Wellsman married Ernest Walter Abbott (printer) in 1921

The fathers' names were William Stanley Wellsman and John Abbott

One of the witnesses was a Doris Wellsman ..... the suggestion being that she was a possible sibling of Gladys.





You then say " William wellsman was married again to My grandma Elizabeth Harvey in 1907 had one child William wellsman


IF that is so ...... then we are dealing with TWO William Wellsman


This is the marriage for William Welssman and Elizabeth Harvey, as taken from th eLondon marriages:-


London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Mary Elizabeth Harvey
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Spouse Name: George William Wellsman
Spouse Age: 28
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Sep 1907
Parish: All Saints, St Marylebone
County: Middlesex
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: James Harvey
Spouse Father Name: George William Wellsman


George William is a Bachelor, age 28, Warehouseman, and lviing at 48 Howard Buildings.

His father was also a Warehouseman


if he was 28 in 1907, then he was born ca 1879

Mary Elizabeth is a Spinster, no occupation shown, and address is 1 Metropolitan Buildings.

Her father is deceased, but was a Corn dealer




Hope this answers most of your questions




sylvia

Ramling Rose is this all the same wellsman familly
thanks june

Hi Rambling Rose
Is the marrage of Glasdys wellsman as stanley wellsman is not in my family unles he is related to william wellsman who is Doris wellsman thanks june

Hi No i dont think so only William wellsman was married again to My grandma Elizabeth Harvey in 1907 had one child William wellsman Thanks june

William wellsman children june

rambling rose
no i didnt think there are more children
do you know the names thanks june