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Hi Shirley,
I just tried to sign up to the site you mentioned but lost all info that I had already entered when I clicked terms and conditions, which was annoying, so will give it another shot tomorrow evening... I will look at the records you mentioned then.
Maybe the aunt Doll my grandfather talks about was not really Kathleens sister? I'm grasping at straws here but can't understand why another daughter is not mentioned on the census...
Does anyone know of anything else I can ask my grandfather that may help me make progress in this area?
Many Thanks,
Chevaun.

The marriage cert should name her father so can check back again on the 1911 census

I know Sylvia, the name information is very vague for my great grandparents siblings, which makes everything so much more difficult as you have quite rightly pointed out. I'm still unsure though whether the Clements family that Shirley found in Kent is the correct one as it makes no mention of a sister and I definately know that Kathleen had at least one sister...
Thanks again for all your help,
Chevaun.

Chevaun
She is the only plain Kathleen Clements born in Kent for around that time and in the same area as Rochester
Take a look at FreeBMD from 1901 to 1910

Chevaun


The problem with Cis and Doll is that they are both probably family nicknames, which may or may not match their "real" names


Doll could be a shortening for Dorothy ....... but equally it could come from someone saying "what a doll" or "she looks like a doll"when she was a baby

Cis could be Cissie, or a form of "Sis" as in sister, etc etc etc


I sometimes tell the story of one of my husband's ex-colleagues.


He was known all his life as Max ............ because that was the name his parents called him when he was in utero


After he was born, he was given 3 forenames ......... none of which had any connection with Max


But his parents continued to call him Max, so did all his friends


If I went looking for him in official records, I would be completely unable to find him, even though I know where and when he was born, and where he lived for almost 50 years fo his life!




sylvia

Shirley, there is a rumour that Frederick was in one of the wars, although it seemed to be a bit of a family joke, so am not sure if it was because he wasn't in it for long... This could indeed be him that you found here on the WW1 Royal Navy records.
I will try to find out some more information from my grandfather tomorrow and update details on here then.
Thanks again,
Chevaun.

If it helps, Kathleens baby (Kathleen) was born out of wedlock and was brought up by Kathleens sister (Doll) also in the Kensington area.

Hi Shirley,
I'm not sure if this is the correct Kathleen registered in Kent as I beleive that Kathleen had at least one sister, called Doll? I'm sorry my info is so vague...
Chevaun.

Sylvia, I think it is possible that he lied about his age , although my grandfather (his son) is certain that he was 55!
Thank you all so much for your help, I am more grateful than you know, have found out more on here in ten minutes than I have in weeks by myself!
Chevaun.

I deleted my post because it was duplicating the information found by SylviainCanada

1911 census
CLEMENTS, Jesse Head Married M 39 1872 Builder Debling Kent VIEW
CLEMENTS, Elizabeth Wife Married
12 years F 39 1872 Gravesend Kent VIEW
CLEMENTS, Jesse John Son M 4 1907 Northfleet Kent VIEW
CLEMENTS, Kathleen Daughter F 2 1909 Northfleet Kent VIEW
POTTER, Anne Servant Single F 21 1890 General Servant Domestic Milton Gravesend Kent VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
3838 Reference:
RG14PN3838 RG78PN146 RD45 SD1 ED5 SN104

Registration District:
Strood Sub District:
Northfleet Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Northfleet

Address:
The Gables London Road Northfleet County:
Kent

Strood is right next to Rochester. i live in the area!!

I agree Sylvia .!

Shirley, the Frederick birth that yoiu have found registered in 1933, Kensington, is definately my grandfather. The Kathleen birth in 1925 is most probably the sister that I was looking for. Thank you very much.

Shirley


I really think he is that one born in 1892

There is just no other record that fits.


I even looked for Male Besant ................ there was one born in 1896



..... and that he did lie about his age, both to his wife and his children!




sylvia

Name: Kathleen Clements
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Strood (1885-1923)
County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 631

so he was some 16 years older so bet he did a fiddle with his age

Kathleen would have been a little young to have a baby in 1921 .ie c 13 so the 1925 birth looks more likely making her c 17 years old

Chevaun


the records on this site are hopeless!


we've all been finding the information on www.freebmd.org.uk ..... a free site that is very easy to use.


I used ancestry.co.uk to find the record for Frederick W Besant born in 1892


and 1911census.co.uk for that information ..... ti si possible to searchf or free on that site, then buy credits to look at the transcript or census image



The posts that have been deleted were postings by people that duplicated information that had already been posted.





sylvia

could have been in WW1 Royal Navy
Name: Frederick W Besant
Regiment or Corps: Royal Navy
Regimental Number: 307143
Would have been too young if born 1902 .
As he didnt marry till 1930 I bet he chopped off 10 years of his age

Edit: it been transcribed as Royal Navy however its only RN on the record and Cpl. Did they have Corporals in the RN i thought they were ratings ??

Thanks Sylvia/Shirley and Ginny for your time and info.
It's very helpful to know that the marriage between Frederick and Kathleen was recorded. I will try the free site mentioned and see whether I can get the info up, Ican't understand though why I can't find it in the records on this site... very strange, unless I am doing something wrong! I suppose it will take some time to get used to the site. Does anyone know why some of the posts have been deleted? Went to make a cup of tea and came back and they had already been removed, didn't realise the responses would be so quick but I'm not complaining!

fred* besant, 1900 +/- 10 years, on the 1911


HOUSEHOLD BESANT FRED M 1909 2 Edmonton Middlesex
HOUSEHOLD BESANT FREDERICK EARNEST M 1896 15 Salisbury Wiltshire
HOUSEHOLD BESANT FREDRICK M 1892 19 Andover Hampshire





sylvia

no 1921 birth but this is a poss as born in the same area they married
Name: Kathleen Clements
Mother's Maiden Surname: Clements
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1925
Registration district: Kensington
Registration county: Greater London
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 247