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Hi there,

My ancestor Edward Hogg (c. 1808-1880) was born and died in Newby Wiske, Yorkshire (Parish of Kirby Wiske). He seems to have been the Edmund Charles Hogg born in the parish on 26th October 1807, although every other source for him states his name as simply being 'Edward Hogg'. His parents are described as being William and Elizabeth Hogg. Other siblings include:

Ann Hogg (1801-1801)
John Hogg (1810-1810)
Maria Hogg (1811-1811)
Thomas Hogg (1813-1836)

Their parents seem to be William Hogg and Elizabeth Turner who married in Kirby Wiske on 24th March 1800.

QUESTION 1) Are Edward and Edmund Charles Hogg the same person?

Now, Edward Hogg married Mary Miller in Easingwold, Yorkshire on 23 May 1829. He then died in 1880, and his headstone in Kirby Wiske Parish Churchyard reads:

In affectionate remembrance of Mary HOGG of Newby Wiske who d.9 Nov 1873 aged 65yrs. 2 line text. Also Jane dau of the above who d.11 May 1858 aged 24yrs. Also of Edward HOGG husband of the above who d.29 Jul 1880 aged 72yrs. 1 line text

I have a copy of Edward Hogg's death certificate in 1880, and his 'sister-in-law', Martha Hogg, is his informant. On looking further there is a William Hogg (c. 1802-1879) in Kirby Wiske, with a wife Martha Rymer. They were married in Kirby Wiske on 12 December 1840, with the groom's father being called William Hogg. Everything seems to correlate with Martha being a sister-in-law to Edward, despite her husband not having an appropriate baptism. There is no baptism of a William Hogg in Kirby Wiske, HOWEVER there is one in South Otterington, an adjoining parish. This is in 1803. However, this William's parents are William and JANE! Confusion sets in.

Have I missed something? Or I am just not seeing the obvious?!

Have you tried looking at other Hogg baptisms in South Otterington around the same period? How far apart are the two parishes? Have you looked at an old map to see if they are within easy walking distance? (Sounds a daft question but in my Norfolk researches I made assumptions initially about nearness of places not realising that there were huge lumps of water in between! A map in colour helped!)

I agree that Edward / Edmund can be confused. Odd though that he never uses Charles as his middle name anywhere else.

Does he describe himself (on censuses) as born in Kirby Wiske?

Have you looked for his "brother" William on any of the censuses to see if that helps? Do they have similar occupations?

What was father William's occupation? If you are looking at the baptism transcriptions on familysearch you won't see the father's occupation but if you order the film to view at your local Latter Day Saints Church you should see a copy of the register (or Bishop's Transcripts) which should give father's occupation. That might help.

Jill

Hi Jill, and thanks for the quick responce - according to Googlemaps, South Otterington and Newby Wiske (the latter being in the Parish of Kirby Wiske) are ONLY 0.4miles away from each other. So, definitiley within walking distance, and this confirmed by looking at the map.

Edward Hogg, my ancestor, definitley had a grandson named Edmund Horner. However, yes, odd that he never used Charles other than his baptism. Can this be explained?

Edward consitently describes himself as being born in Newby Wiske in 1851/61/71.

Edward was a gardener by occupation and I beleive his 'brother' William was a labourer. He and his wife Martha had no KNOWN children.

On Edmund Charles' baptism in 1808, his father is described as a labourer, and on William and Martha Hogg's marriage certificiate in 1840, the groom's father William Hogg is also described as a labourer.

RE South Otterington - four Hogg baptism with father William Hogg between 1731-1812:

Mary Hogg, baptised 12 Aug 1801 (daughter of William and Jane Hogg)
William Hogg, baptised 30 Jun 1803 (son of William and Jane Hogg)

Ann Hogg, baptised 3 Feb 1809 (daughter of William and Mary Hogg)
Eleanor Hogg, baptised 16 Jun 1811 (daughter of William and Mary Hogg)

What does this suggest?

Oh well - Labourers !! They're not very descriptive are they - bless them!

Gardener - Labourer. Not a million miles apart I suppose but it would have been helpful if a couple of them had been gunsmiths or carpenters or something a bit more specific. Hmmm.

0.4 miles is no distance is it? But, we seem to have a possible three families. Unless Jane died after Jun 1803 and that William married again - to Mary sometime before 1809? Might be worth trying for the deaths of the wives and the marriages of the William(s). There must have been at least two Williams as the baptism dates don't mesh that well together do they? (Mind you, the children may have been a few years old at the time of the baptisms but let's not go down that road yet!)

Going back to your William and Elizabeth - there's a gap between Ann 1801 and Edward 1808 which might be perfectly explainable but might also be worth looking into for reasons other than, say, stillbirth children. Perhaps William was in prison for a while? If he was there might be records that might help you find out more about him.

Edward/Edmund having a grandson called Edmund is really helpful. (I have a Josiah who shows as Joseph here and there but he had a nephew called Josiah which helped confirm my thoughts about him.)

I'm still pondering why Edward did not use his middle name. You'd have thought he would have used it on his marriage at least. Perhaps he didn't know that he had a middle name. Maybe his baptism certificate had been lost, maybe his parents died while he was relatively young ... Maybe he just didn't like the name Charles so he dropped it. Interesting.

Not sure if I'm helping or raising more questions!

Jill

Hmmmm, interesting - yes, further detail on jobs would be interesting and help us out here.

RE Edward Hogg's parents (the man where we start with all of this intrigue). I suspect his parents, William and Elizabeth died:

William HOGG, died about 18 June 1830 in Kirby Wiske (Aged 53, so born c. 1777)
Elizabeth HOGG, died about 7 June 1850 in Kirby Wiske (Aged 73, so born c. 1777)

I am not sure if this helps with anything.

NOW, I can't find a marriage between William Hogg and Jane ? that seems likely, but there is a BURIAL in South Otterington for a Jane Hogg, aged 28 on 26 Dec. 1805 (born c. 1777).

Then there is a marriage between a William Hogg and Mary Atkinson in South Otterington on 5th August 1806.

Ann Hogg, baptised 3 Feb 1809 (daughter of William and Mary Hogg), buried 31 Mar 1819 (South Otterington)
Eleanor Hogg, baptised 16 Jun 1811 (daughter of William and Mary Hogg), buried 18th July 1811.

There is then a death for a Mary Hogg in South Otterington on May 6 1814, aged 44 years old (born c. 1770).

There is then a marriage for a William Hogg in nearby Kirby Wiske to a Prudence Taylor (29 August 1818)

There are then burials in South Otterington for a William HOGG on 15 April 1849, aged 80 and a Prudence HOGG on 18 September 1846 aged 65.

Does this help clarify anything?

There is ALSO a William HOGG, no age given, buried on 31 July 1803 in South Otterington, BUT if this the William Hogg baptised on 30 Jun 1803 (son of William and Jane Hogg), then where does the brother of my Edward fit into all of this?!

William the wife of Martha Rymer, married in 1840, and 'sister-in-law' to Edward? I thought THIS William was the one buried in South Otterington on 22 March 1879 but now I getting very confused!

Also, to add further confusion and to possibly go back a generation, I found this marriage: Charles Hogg

England Marriages, 1538–1973


marriage: 21 Nov 1776 —Kirby Wiske, York, England
spouse: Elizabeth Warde

Then THIS baptism, which could be my ancestor William Hogg who married Elizabeth Turner in 1800 in Kirby Wiske?!

Name: William Hogg
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 23 Nov 1777
Baptism/Christening Place: SEDGEFIELD,DURHAM,ENGLAND
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Charles Hogg
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P00081-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 91112
Reference Number:

There are 38 miles between Sedgefield and Kirby Wiske. What do you think?! ARRR! This may explain where Edward/Edmund got his middle name from? But then, I am just jumping to speculative conclusions without any evidence?

Hi Peter

It is fun isn't it?

Your first post on 7 September with all the William marriages seems to make sense. I've not tried matching it against the baptisms of the children you found earlier.

If there are two Williams born about the same time it may be better for you to track them both ... you might then be able to eliminate one.

Take your time!

Jill

Don't forget that "in-law" then could have a different meaning then to now. It was sometimes used to mean a step-child.

Yeah I should take my time. I would hate to be researching the 'wrong' line. Terrible!

I am just not sure of how to confirm this now? Is it a case of searching the IGI further for other William Hogg's born c 1770-1790?

And I never though that 'in-law' may mean a different relationship to what it did now. Mmmmm!

The IGI might help but do remember that not all of the parish records we want are on line.

You might do as well to check out the local FHS - a lot of them have websites and offer CDs of the parish records which can be a great help - but that can work out expensive if you purchase PRs for several churches.

Jill

Oh dear, this is proving difficult!