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if there are pictures it must be in a family tree

yes ... in four family trees but I don't have a subscription so I can't see them

two different people

the tree names are

Deuter-Liske ( Gustav Otto Hoffmann born in Russia died in Germany )

Marshall ( Herman Gustav Hoffmann born in Massachusetts died in Massachusetts )
Dalen-Donsbach ( same as above )
Hutter ( same as above )

neither one of them looks very likely


you say they travelled all over the world but at findmypast I can't find any passenger record for either of them under any of their names


by the way I for one was so confident about all the info that would be on Ruby Carash's birth cert that I didn't even comment on it ......... yay :-D

i dont know it wont let me get on to the page just wont load from the internet there are pictures of him and the name seems to suggest german

My computer is playing up cant get onto much

I'll order the marriage certificate for him bit confused where tthe debacker comes into it though?

I would certainly get the Ruby and Gustav marriage certificate, it is the only way to start getting information about him that can be used to find more and be sure you are on a right track

... as long as he didn't lie when he married !

I am sceptical about him being any kind of noble ...

De Becker seems to be largely a Belgian name ... there are a few in English records before 1900 ... the name Nicola ( male ) figures large in the family ( I wonder about his initial N )

possibly German ...

I would guess perhaps Jewish ( Hoffmann ) and left Europe in the 30s because of the situation ? although non-Jews also left for similar reasons with Hitler's rise to power

but yes definitely the marriage certificate

what is the information on ancestry ... census ? what year ? birth, marriage death ... ?

as rootgatherer says yours got difficult less than a century ago ! most of us at least know who our grandparents were to start with ... although I have some questions about one of mine and the names that particular one used still :-)

oh just to add i typed in Gutav HoffmaNN some information comes up from ancestry but i cant seem to access ancestry on my internet it is playing up

It says he was born in 1882 which puts his age right he was only a few years older than ruby any one help to see what this record is?

exactly what im getting just this thread would his marriage certficate help?

Do we know which Dudley Gordon is the on we are most confident is our man?

The last part of you post made me laugh Lucy. Your tree got hard in 1915 with the birth of Ruby G Gordon!! Most trees aren't quite as complicated as yours. You can work back on the Sheffields. And maybe get some more on the Canadian Carash side.

Googling brings up nothing but this thread for Gustav. Well that's what I found. Maybe someone else can come up with something.

Hi guys i have just recieved Ruby Dorothys borth certificate here are the deatils

Ruby Dorothy born 17th March 1895 in Croydon

Living at 61 Wandle Road Croydon

Mother - Emma georgina Carash formally Sheffield

Father - Thomas Henry Micklewright Carash

Father occupation - Plumbing then it has brackets (master?)

Birth registered on 17th April on month later

Fathers signiture as J.H.M Carash

Well done to everyone finding this Thomas Micklewright and confirming all the information im so pleased that i have concrete eveidence shame the certificates take so long to get here

I do not know when Ruby Dorothy died but she did drop the Ruby in her name and in some laters refers to herself as Baroness, her and Gustav travelled all over the world not sure where she died

I am thinking i will get her and Gustavs marriage certificate it may hold some clues

Have we got an idea as to which Dudley will be the most likely?

Also how can i find out more about Gustav any websites where i can look would be very greatful as a noble man he must have some details available on the web?

I am so pleased i have so much of this part of my family tree sorted just a few lose ends i need to tie up

Oh and one more question sorry, how far back can you usually go with family trees, what year does it start t get harder and where are the best places to look

Thanks to everyone :-D

No that side of the family no one knows I have the info at home ill be on this evening to answer these questions ill b on about half 5 6but ruby dorothy necer re married after gustav only the one marriage in her life him

that was what I meant by 'interesting name' back a page ( hadn't wanted to put the data here because of the date ) ... did the name 'Stuart' come from somewhere after all ?

Did Dudley only have 1 son - Stuart? Born a few years after the marriage.

I think I meant to wonder that a page or two back, what name Dudley B Gordon gave for father if any when he married :-) ... and Lucy I was asking whether you are in touch with family of Dudley B Gordon

I've searched for a death for Ruby Dorothy (Constance) Carash (Garner) (Gordon) de Becker / Hoffmann various ways but no luck ..........

I wonder who Dudley gave as his father on his marriage?

Name: Dudley B Gordon
Spouse Surname: Cheney
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1935
Registration district: Camberwell
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 2176
Find Spouse: Find Spouse




Lucy - Do you know where Ruby Dorothy died please?


EDIT

Just noticed that she had dropped the Ruby and used Dorothy C when she married in 1935.

Will go and have another look on Ancestry for a possible death.

re Gustav, Lucy note that his name seems to be spelled HoffmaNN

Marriages Dec 1935
Carash Dorothy C Hoffman Wandsworth 1d 1205
Carash Dorothy C De Becker Wandsworth 1d 1205
De Becker Gustav H N Carash Wandsworth 1d 1205
* Hoffmann Gustav H N Carash Wandsworth 1d 1205

do you have the marriage certificate ? his full name, his age, his father's name ........ ?

when and where did he die ?

and Ruby ? I can't remember whether she married again after him ... or when or where Ruby Carash (Gordon) Hoffmann/de Becker ? died ... I can't figure that out

is this where Baker comes in ??

oh ! I had completely ignored that birth, yes indeed, hm

who else's child would he be indeed ?

Dudley A Gordon married on 1 Aug 1917

if the birth and death were in December and the birth was premature for example ... well Dudley would still have been behaving badly while engaged

I guess it would be a good idea to have all three Gordon-Carash birth certificates ?

Are we excluding this birth please? Do we think that he wasn't one of Ruby's children with Mr. Gordon?

Births Dec 1917 Gordon Norman C Carash Lambeth 1d 422

Deaths Dec 1917 Gordon Norman C 0 Lambeth 1d 364



PS - I'll delete that posting with the Stuart family as it doesn't now seem relevant. No point in cluttering the thread with things that are wrong.

can i have a recap on the dudley who we believe is the best match

There are so many above i dont know which one we are going for

Also there is on other man i am struglling to find out about

Gustav H N De Becker?
any help where i can find out about him

I will be speaking to Norma asking her if she can remenber anything about her grandad, if there are any letters or anything that may help
:-)

are you in touch with family of Dudley born 1913 ?

if he has male offspring ... ah yes son born 1950, interesting name ... if that son or a son of his is living then you can always try to beg borrow or steal some Hamilton-Gordon DNA to try for a match :-)

it could be worth doing just for future reference ... have the DNA analysis done and submit it, say to a Gordon family group, and have it on record for matches

http://www.thegordondnaproject.com/

this is a history of the family up to the late 1800s

http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/families/gordons_methlic.htm

showing the Scottish roots

but remember we are off on a bit of a flight of fancy

DNA really is the only 'proof' in these cases though

Emmm very strange as I can see a likeness very weird when u can see a likeness how can we be sure though that's the question?

ah right i see i have just gone through the whole thread and wrote up a report on the whole family... taking me ages!!
I will look at the pictures now see if anything looks fimallar at leat to his grandchildren my nan and norma,

by the way I meant to add ... on the marriage record for Dudley Arthur Gordon 1917 ... father D C Gordon 'gentleman'

that covered a multitude of sins ... I have someone in my family who called his father 'gentleman' when he married a second time in middle age ... actually his father was an agricultural labourer but I suppose because the son had done well in business and become wealthy he said his father ( who would have been long dead ) was a 'gentleman'

the whole thing, initials D C instead of name and 'gentleman' for occupation, makes it look very fishy