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I have found the marriage of

Robert Roberts (a joiner) to Sophia Ann Wynne in Liverpool in 1837

I have found the birth of their son John, who was born in 1844 in Liverpool

(John was my great grandfather)

I have found Robert & Sophia in the 1841 census

But after that, nothing.

John married Mary Mawdsley in 1868 and I have that certificate. I have found Mary on the 1881 census...but not John.

I understand that John died about 1885ish..but have been unable ti find a death for him.

Where did he hide himself????? amongs all the other John Roberts, of which there are 100s.

Which cupboard is he hiding in????? any suggestions please.

Kay

But I am unable to find any of them

Which child of John & Mary was your grandparent?

How is Mary described in 1881?

What was John's occupation?

Looks like Sophia re-married:
Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 about Sophia Ann Roberts
Name: Sophia Ann Roberts widow
Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 18 Mar 1845
Parish: Liverpool St Philip
Spouse's Name: John Hughes Occ: Miner? Edit: On second thought-I think it says "joiner"!
Father's Name: Richd Wynne
Spouse Father's Name: Rd Hughes


Maureen

Thanks Maureen.............


???????
Deaths Sep 1873 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hughes Sophia Ann 59 W. Derby 8b 397

1871........image shows second initial to be 'A'

Both Johns are JOINERS

Name: Sophia N Hughes
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Hughes
Gender: Female
Where born: Llanshaich, Denbighshire, Wales
Civil parish: West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish: Kensington Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: West Derby
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Household schedule number: 183
Piece: 3844
Folio: 84
Page Number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
John Hughes 59
Sophia N Hughes 57
John Hughes 26
Sophia Hughes 18
Anne Hughes 15
William Hughes 11
F Turner 46

Liverpool, Lancashire, England, Burials, 1813-1974
Name: Robert Roberts
Birth Year: abt 1766
Age: 75
Death: 4th Aug 1841
Burial Date: 8 Aug 1841
Parish: Liverpool St John
Address: Heath St

I understand that a son was born after this date but there is a chance that the son was not Roberts?

I've found the same couple in 1851 and 1861, but there's no sign of John Roberts with them

On the image of the Wynne/Roberts marriage, Robert was a Bachelor of full age............his father was also Robert (Occ: Mariner)

Suspect the 1841 death to be that of the father or even grandfather, as there's also a burial for a 46-year old

???????

Burial: 22 Aug 1844 St John, Old Haymarket, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Robert Roberts -
Age: 27 years
Abode: Craven Street
Buried by: Wm. M. Falloon Minister
Register: Burials 1843 - 1849, Page 50, Entry 397
Source: LDS Film 93826

1841 for INFO only

Name: Sophia Roberts
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Hundred: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: Mount Pleasant
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 561
Book: 22
Folio: 19
Page Number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
Robert Roberts 25
Sophia Roberts 25
Robert Roberts 2
Richard Roberts 1
Robert Campbell 15
John Jones 25
Ellen Jones 25

How old are Robert and Sophia on the 1841 census? IThe one I thought was them list them as 1766 and 1776c?

Maybe Im looking at the wrong one?

Kathlyn, could you post the 1841 that you found them on please


Edit: Thanks Flick

Baptisms: 26 Dec 1838 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Robert Roberts - Child of Robert Roberts & Sophia
Abode: Egypt St.
Occupation: Joiner
Baptised by: Richd. Appleton Curate
Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1839, Page 371, Entry 2967
Source: LDS Film 1656422

Baptisms: 13 Mar 1844 St Catherine Abercromby Square, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
John Roberts - Son of Robert Roberts & Sophia
Born: 15 Feb 1844
Abode: Egypt St.
Occupation: Joiner
Baptised by: J. North
Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1861, Page 57, Entry 254
Source: LDS Film 1655552

We need feedback now...............

I am sorry that it has taken me so long to reply to this help, but my husband is only just out of hospital after open heart surgery and I have to find time to do my own thing.

1841 census..

Robert Roberts, born 1816 in Liverpool
wife, Sophia
sons Robert and Richard aged 1 and 2

Living in Egypt Street


In the 1881 census Mary the wife of John is recorded thus....

Mary Roberts, born in Kirkby 1849 (A general labourers wife)
Son John R Roberts
Son William
George Massie, a lodger, A flour dealers assistant.

Mary Roberts married George Massie in 1894

The son John R was my grandfather.

The leads you have all given me are so very helpful and I cannot tell you just how much I appreciate your efforts. My grandfather, John R Roberts, changed his name about 1893 to his mothers maiden name but told no one. It has taken me 5 years to sort this out and my only was lead was, George Massie. The only info we had about granddads family was that his mother Mary Mawdsley, married a George Massie, a master baker, so I had to start my research using George as my key.

I am so very grateful for all your help.

Kathlyn

I think because there are 9 or 10 possible deaths for your Robert, it is just a case of ordering the certificates one at a time

At least you know he was alive in June 1843 and dead before March 1845

Its an expensive game this genealogy lark, I think most of us have come accross someone that has been a pain in the butt to pin down :-(

The burial that FLick posted looks promising, Id send for that death certificate first (Burial: 22 Aug 1844 St John, Old Haymarket, Liverpool, Lancashire, England)


PS I hope your husband is recovering well.

Hello Gins,

I will "bite the bullet" and send for the cert. I made my self a promise 5 years ago when researching my paternal side, that I would get to the bottom of it. Just goes to prove one should ask those very important questions when rellies are alive.

I am sure my granddad is sitting on a fluffy white cloud laughing his head off at my frustration and if he wasn`t already dead I think I would strangle him for keeping such important info to himself.

Thanks again for your help, I am so grateful.

Kind regards

Kathlyn

Hi,
Can you confirm the year of birth for the some John R Massie? I'm desperately stuck at my grandmothers origins, she lived in Liverpool in 1947 (aged 19) and her father was subsequently listed on a cert as John Massie - Public Auditor and potentially he could have been born any time between 1912 or earlier....
Does this ring a bell?
Thanks,
Clare.