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Vera
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1 Jun 2012 10:43 |
Dawn, You are quite right to cover all options. We also know about census and certificates there are porkie pies whether deliberate or not :-)) Personally I don't think she was married... Best Wishes.
Regards Vera
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Dawn
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1 Jun 2012 10:36 |
Hi, Well it was just an option, with Samuel being born just after this marriage. also having seen cenuses that have things put on them and knowing the info isn't right, I thought she could of said to the enumumerator that she wasn't married which is either never or being widowed she is no longer married. or her brother saying her name and then answering no to the marital question. I had a case of 2 youngest children beign put as the grandsons of the head when they were actually the sons! also a couple being put as married on the 1861 and they didn't marry until 4yrs later having their marriage cert.which was 4mths before my gggrandfather was born in 1864! so really just another option to investigate. regards Dawn
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Vera
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1 Jun 2012 10:03 |
Hi,
Are you certain that Martha Green married John Mountford and that they had Martha and Eliza ? Please can I ask where you got that inf., from as on the FreeBMD there are quite a few couples....
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Mar 1841 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bennet Thomas Stoke On Trent 17 171 CARTLIDGE Thomas Stoke on T 17 171 Durose Jane Stoke upon Trent 17 171 GIBSON Hannah Stoke On Trent 17 171 GREEN Martha Stoke On Trent 17 171 Henshall Mary Stoke on Trent 17 171 Layland Josiah Stoke on Trent 17 171 MOUNTFORD John Stoke on Trent 17 171
How did you know John married Martha?
Regards Vera
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Vera
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1 Jun 2012 09:49 |
Hi Dawn,
Glad to help. It does look like Martha never married Samuels father as the 1851 census gives her living with her brother and his family and it states that she is single and Samuel is her son. Will check this other Martha with daughter Martha. Hope all is well downunder :-))
Regards Vera
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Dawn
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31 May 2012 22:21 |
It's now a matter of finding out if Martha was actually married or not! I did see a marriage in 1841 of a martha green to a john mountford with a birth of a martha mountford the following yearand the birth of eliza in 1849, couldn't find a death of a john around the time which would of made her husband-less on the 1861! Many thanks once again from downunder :)
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Dawn
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31 May 2012 22:14 |
thanks again Vera for all your help :)
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Vera
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31 May 2012 14:28 |
1871 Samuel Barber Head M 26 1845 Staffordshire VIEW BARBER, Etey Wife F 26 1845 Staffordshire VIEW error when written on image BARBER, Edward Son M 8 1863 Staffordshire VIEW BARBER, Thomas Son M 2 1869 Staffordshire VIEW Piece: 2878 Folio: 67 Page: 53 Registration District: Leek Civil Parish: Norton Municipal Borough: Address: Stanley Street, Norton County: Staffordshire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1881
, Saml Head Married M 36 1845 Coal Miner Kidsgrove, Staffordshire VIEW BARBER, Eliza Wife Married F 36 1845 Cobridge, Staffordshire VIEW BARBER, Thos Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar Smallthorn, Staffordshire VIEW BARBER, Geoe Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar VIEW BARBER, Pheobe Daughter Single F 2 1879 VIEW MOUNTFORD, Edward Lodger Married M 37 1844 Coal Miner Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW FALKNER, Hannah Lodger Married F 28 1853 Wakefield, Staffordshire VIEW MOUNTFORD, George Son Single M 18 1863 Coal Miner Smallthorn, Staffordshire VIEW FALKNER, Henry Son Single M 2 1879 Smallthorn, Staffordshire VIEW FALKNER, Mary Elizth Daughter Single F 0 1881 Smallthorn, Staffordshire VIEW Piece: 2736 Folio: 73 Page: 56 Registration District: Leek Civil Parish: Norton in the Moors Municipal Borough: Address: Stanley St, Norton In The Moors County: Staffordshire
Marriages Dec 1865 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Barber Samuel Wolstanton 6b 171 Mountford Eliza Wolstanton 6b 171
Regards VERA
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Vera
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31 May 2012 13:06 |
So far no luck with Martha on the 1871....still looking
Found this death unfortunately without the cert., will not know if it is the right one.
Deaths Mar 1862 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MOUNTFORD Martha Wolstanton 6b 72
Regards Vera
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Dawn
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31 May 2012 11:56 |
Hi Vera, just had another look at the 1851 you did, and it's looks a possiblity! Martha although put UM could of been a widow as the Samuel and as you said the F 1850 could be eliza! also maybe Martha didn't marry! but just put herself as a Widow in 1861. Strange in 1851 she puts herself as apotter but nothing in 1861 and her son is put as a labourer! would be interesting to see her on the 1871! I have Samuel with his wife Isabella on the 1871. Alos I did read a message on a site, which I couldn't reply to that on Samuel's marriage to Isabella, it put's his father as Samuel potter, yet I haven't find a marriage of a Samuel and Martha! More intrigue! still it keeps it interesting!!
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Dawn
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31 May 2012 11:45 |
wow! thanks for the new posts! they must of been put on while I was writing my reply! About the Mountford, I was wondering if it might have a T on the end? it has happened here in NZ The sister on the 1861 Eliza age 11!
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PricklyHolly
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31 May 2012 11:37 |
Thomas remarried....
Household Record 1881 British Census
Name Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Thomas OLDACRE M Male 65 Snelson Potters Printer Martha OLDACRE M Female 46 Hanley, Stafford, England Joseph LOMAX U Male 24 Shelton, Stafford, England Potters Placer Martha LOMAX U Female 17 Shelton, Stafford, England Potters Transferer William LOMAX Male 14 Shelton, Stafford, England Potters Labourer George LOMAX Male 13 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar Laura LOMAX Female 11 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar Minnie LOMAX Female 9 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar Harry OLDACRE Male 5 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar Frederick OLDACRE Male 4 Shelton, Stafford, England Scholar Alice JERVIS Female 18 Stoke, Stafford, England Potters W house Woman
Dwelling 35 Chatham St Census Place Stoke Upon Trent, Stafford, England Family History Library Film 1341653
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Thomas Oldacre Name: Thomas Oldacre Spouse Name: Martha Lomax Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1874 Registration district: Stoke upon Trent Inferred County: Staffordshire Volume Number: 6b Page Number: 307
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Dawn
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31 May 2012 11:36 |
Wow! thanks! I have a problem with the Samuel mountford! there were two who went to NZ! Samuel married Isabella Oldaker and they went to NZ in 1875,he says he is a gardener, they had a daughter Lilly who had the name Waimate as well as she was born on the ship and she passed it on to her sonGordon! so I know that is the right one,as on the nz bmd there is a record for Lilly with Samuel and Isabella as parents. The other Samuel married an Emma and came to nz in 1874. he says he is a potter. However on Gordon's marriage his parents which are actually his grandparents samuel is put as a potter!!!!! That's why I would like to find Samuel with both parents on 1851 as his mother Martha is a widow in 1861 Much appreciate help given :)
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PricklyHolly
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31 May 2012 11:29 |
IGI Individual Record FamilySearchâ„¢ International Genealogical Index v5.0 British Isles Search Results | Download | Print
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- THOMAS OLDAKER Pedigree Male Family
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Event(s): Birth: Christening: Death: Burial:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages: Spouse: ELLEN BARNET Family Marriage: 29 MAY 1836 Stoke Upon Trent, Stafford, England
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Messages: Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record
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Vera
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31 May 2012 11:28 |
1841 possible
MOUNTFORD, Joseph M 55 1786 Staffordshire VIEW MOUNTFORD, Joseph M 17 1824 Staffordshire VIEW MOUNTFORD, Ralph M 14 1827 Staffordshire VIEW <<<<<MOUNTFORD, Martha F 20 1821 Staffordshire VIEW MOUNTFORD, Ruth F 11 1830 Staffordshire VIEW BENNETT, Richard M 21 1820 Staffordshire VIEW BENNETT, Phoebe F 20 1821 Staffordshire VIEW Piece: 987 Book/Folio: 15/44 Page: 1 Registration District: Wolstanton & Burslem Civil Parish: Burslem Municipal Borough: Stoke upon Trent Address: Cobridge, Burslem, Rushton Grange, Stoke Upon Trent County: Staffordshire
Regards Vera
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PricklyHolly
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31 May 2012 11:19 |
1841 England Census about Ellen Oldacre Name: Ellen Oldacre Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816 Gender: Female Where born: Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Stoke Upon Trent Hundred: North Pirehill County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View image Registration district: Stoke upon Trent Sub-registration district: Hanley Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 990 Book: 9 Page Number: 1 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Oldacre 25 (Potter) Ellen Oldacre 25 Ann Oldacre 3 Sarah Ann Oldacre 1
Thomas is a Potter Printer on the 1851.
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Vera
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31 May 2012 11:09 |
1851 ???
Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where born Image MOUNTFORD, George Head Widower M 40 1811 Potter Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW MOUNTFORD, Hannah Daughter Unmarried F 16 1835 Potter Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW MOUNTFORD, Samuel Son Unmarried M 14 1837 Potter Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW MOUNTFORD, Ephriam Son M 4 1847 Potter Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW >>>>>>>>MOUNTFORD, Martha Sister Unmarried F 31 1820 Potter Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW >>>>>>>>MOUNTFORD, Samuel M 8 1843 Sisters son Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW - F 1 1850 Burslem, Staffordshire VIEW ........ Although there is no name against this info on the image the dates match Eliza
Piece: 2003 Folio: 570 Page: 19 Registration District: Wolstanton Civil Parish: Rushton Grange Municipal Borough: Stoke upon Trent Address: Cobridge, Rushton Grange, Stoke Upon Trent County: Staffordshire
Martha was single.
Regards Vera
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Helen
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31 May 2012 11:05 |
1851 England Census about Isabella Oldaker Name: Isabella Oldaker [Isabella Oldacre] [Isabella Oldacre] Age: 6 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Thomas Oldaker Mother's name: Ellen Oldaker Gender: F (Female) Where born: Hanley, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Stoke upon Trent Ecclesiastical parish: Shelton Town: Hanley and Shelton County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image Registration district: Stoke Upon Trent Sub-registration district: Shelton ED, institution, or vessel: 1i Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 125 Piece: 2005 Folio: 215 Page Number: 31 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Oldaker 36 Ellen Oldaker 36 Ann Oldaker 13 Sarah Ann Oldaker 10 Ellen Oldaker 9 Isabella Oldaker 6 Elija Oldaker 4 Elizabeth Oldaker 2 Thomas Oldaker 4 Mo View Original Record
View original image
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Dawn
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31 May 2012 10:33 |
I am looking for a Samuel Mountford born c 1843/44 in Staffordshire I have him on the 1861 with his mother Martha a widow and sister. also Isabella Oldacre born c 1844/5 staffordshire. I have her on the 1861 with her family parents Thomas and Ellen. Many thanks Dawn
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