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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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27 Jun 2012 18:44 |
Go to last thread dated 02/07/2012!
Firstly, apologies if I have duplicated a thread. I thought I had posted this before but trawled through 10 pages of "My Threads" without success.
I first find George Henry aged 4 and John aged 3 in 1861 living at Blue Pig Row Dudley
Name: George Henry Homer Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857 Relation: Grandson Gender: Male Where born: Dudley, Worcestershire, England Civil parish: Dudley County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Registration district: Dudley Sub-registration district: Dudley ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 148 Piece: 2058 Folio: 73 Page Number: 29 Household Members: Name Age Andrew Homer 54 Selvy Homer 56 Dinah Homer 26 Andrew Homer 17 Eliza Homer 15 Martha Homer 13 Joseph Homer 9 George Henry Homer 4 John Homer 3
Both are shown as grandsons of Andrew and Sylvia (Selvey).
Ten years later, Sylvia has died and the boys now aged 14 and 13 are living in High Street Dudley
Name: George Horner [George Homer] Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857 Relation: Son Father's Name: Andrew Horner Gender: Male Where born: Dudley, Worcestershire, England Civil parish: Dudley Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas Town: Woodside County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Registration district: Dudley Sub-registration district: Dudley ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Household schedule number: 12 Piece: 3014 Folio: 5 Page Number: 3 Household Members: Name Age Andrew Horner 64 Mary Horner 30 Eliza Horner 22 Martha Horner 20 Joseph Horner 19 George Horner 14 John Horner 13 James Lilly 21 James Pember 19
But now they are the sons of Andrew.
I have found a christening on LDS
name: George Henry Homer gender: Male baptism/christening date: 10 Aug 1856 baptism/christening place: SAINT THOMAS,DUDLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND birth date: 06 Jun 1855 father's name: Andrew Homer mother's name: Sylvia indexing project (batch) number: C04014-7 system origin: England-ODM
which not only suggests George was born in 1855 (as opposed to 1857) but that he was indeed Andrew and Sylvia's son. I can't find a christening for John.. George went on to marry Sarah Ann Haddis in 1902 and from 1891 onwards his birth year is 1855.
While it is not inconceivable that they were indeed the children of Andrew and Sylvia, she would have been 45 ish in 1855 and it was four years after the birth of her last know child.
I cannot find GRO births on freebmd for either of them. I thought George could be male Homer ref vol 6c page 124 (not) and John maybe vol 6c page 5 (not) I don't find John again in the censuses and believe he may have died in 1874
I long ago had contact with someone who said that on George's marriage to Sarah Ann he had his father as Andrew. So Andrew senior - on basis that even if he was his grandfather he had raised him? Or Andrew junior who would have been 12 in 1855 :-) ?
Are there any other sources of info? Any thoughts welcome as always with thanks!
Jude
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Gee
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27 Jun 2012 19:17 |
1841 England Census Name: Andrew Nomer [Andrew Homer] Age: 32 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809 Gender: Male Where born: Worcestershire, England Civil parish: Dudley Hundred: Halfshire (Lower Division) County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Registration district: Dudley Sub-registration district: Dudley Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1196 Book: 12 Folio: 15 Page Number: 22 Household Members: Name Age Andrew Nomer 32 Silva Nomer 29 Jane Nomer 9 Dana Nomer 7 Sarah Ann Nomer 5 Mary Nomer 3
1851 England Census Name: Andrew Homer Age: 42 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Selina Homer Gender: M (Male) Where born: Kingswinford, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Dudley County/Island: Staffordshire Country: England Registration district: Dudley Sub-registration district: Dudley ED, institution, or vessel: 1x Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 132 Piece: 2033 Folio: 71 Page Number: 33 Household Members: Name Age Andrew Homer 42 Selina Homer 38 Jane Homer 19 Donah Homer 17 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Mary Homer 11 Andrew Homer 8 Eliza Homer 6 Cornelius Homer 4 Martha Homer 2 Jude
I guess they could have been the parents or one of the daughters was and they purported to be the parents?
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Gee
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27 Jun 2012 19:23 |
Births Sep 1857 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homer George Dudley 6C 95
Births Dec 1857 --------------------------------------- Homer John Dudley 6c 144
Births Mar 1858 ------------------------------------- Homer John Dudley 6c 5
Births Jun 1859 --------------------------------------- Homer John Dudley 6c 69
Births Dec 1859 ----------------------------------------- HOMER John Dudley 6c 108
Have you tried getting any of the birth certificates Jude?
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Gee
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27 Jun 2012 19:28 |
Groom's Name: Andrew Homer Bride's Name: Sylvia Wood Marriage Date: 26 Dec 1831 Marriage Place: Saint Thomas,Dudley,Worcester,England Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M04014-4 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 378762, 378763, 378764, 378765, 378766, 378767, 378768, 378769, 378770
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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27 Jun 2012 19:32 |
Gins...in my tree I have them as children of Dinah (as the best guess)..this was originally based on the fact I thought she had died in 1861.....there is a death entry that fits. But then I find her - or at least I think it is her (Donah)
Name: Donah Homer Age: 36 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Woodside, Worcestershire, England Civil parish: Dudley Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Registration district: Dudley Sub-registration district: Dudley ED, institution, or vessel: 27 Household schedule number: 254 Piece: 3014 Folio: 53 Page Number: 52 Household Members: Name Age John Hadley 43 Mary Ann Hadley 43 Hannah Frens Witby 10 Donah Homer 36
I have two birth certificates....
Births Mar 1858 ------------------------------------- Homer John Dudley 6c 5
Father Ezra mother Hannah
and Male Homer 6c 124 04/04/1855..father blank mother Isabella Homer
So £18.50 for two duds :-(
Births Dec 1857 --------------------------------------- Homer John Dudley 6c 144 ...on my list to "speculate" as was
Births Sep 1857 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homer George Dudley 6C 95
less likely to go for George in 1857 given the christening in 1856 saying he was born in 1855. Surer bet is George's marriage certificate which I'll probably get (pay day today ha ha!!!) but I know what it is going to say (if my previous contact is correct).....just trying to see if there were any other avenues....
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Gee
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27 Jun 2012 19:33 |
Hmmmm......interesting
Name: John Homer Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 25 Sep 1859 Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT THOMAS,DUDLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND Birth Date: 05 Sep 1859
Death Date: 01 Feb 1860
Father's Name: John Homer Mothers name: Betsy Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04014-7 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 378778, 378779, 378780
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safc
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27 Jun 2012 19:36 |
????
Name: George Henry Homer Gender: Male Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Aug 1856 Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT THOMAS,DUDLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND Birth Date: 06 Jun 1855 Birthplace: Death Date: Name Note: Race: Father's Name: Andrew Homer Father's Birthplace: Father's Age: Mother's Name: Sylvia Mother's Birthplace: Mother's Age: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04014-7 System Origin: England-ODM Source Film Number: 378778, 378779, 378780 Reference Number:
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Gee
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27 Jun 2012 19:36 |
Jude
Dinah is on the two censuses that I posted so the one you have found isnt her?
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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27 Jun 2012 19:36 |
I think the info I have on Andrew and Selvey/Sylvia and their ancestors is as complete as it can be (I managed to latch onto several GR members with the Homers and the Woods in their trees...and their thousands put my "small" tree to shame!)
If it wasn't for the "grandsons" entry in 1861 I wouldn't ever have queried that they could be Andrew and Sylvia's sons. gree...oh for a time machine :-)
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safc
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27 Jun 2012 19:40 |
Groom's Name: George Henry Homer Groom's Birth Date: 1857 Groom's Birthplace: Groom's Age: 23 Bride's Name: Sara Ann Haddis Bride's Birth Date: 1859 Bride's Birthplace: Bride's Age: 21 Marriage Date: 28 Mar 1880 Marriage Place: Dudley, Worcester, England Groom's Father's Name: Andrew Groom's Mother's Name: Bride's Father's Name: John Bride's Mother's Name: Groom's Race: Groom's Marital Status: Single Groom's Previous Wife's Name: Bride's Race: Bride's Marital Status: Single Bride's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01465-6 System Origin: England-EASy Source Film Number: 1470600 Reference Number: 440 p 220
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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27 Jun 2012 19:42 |
Yes I have Dinah in 1841 and 1851 - the two you posted...and I have her in 1861 (original post where George and John are grandsons)...I then thought she had died in Q3 1861 - leaving her "sons" to be brought up by her parents.....but found the 1871 entry for Donah the servant which I am fairly sure is her.
The christening for John can't be him because he is on the 1861 and 71 censuses...and the one in the christening died in 1860.
Jude
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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27 Jun 2012 19:44 |
safc...yes that's why I am reluctant to spend £9.25 on that marriage certificate because it is not going to tell me anything. A decsendant of George had told me the marriage certificate shows his father as Andrew.....and as I say is that Andrew (senior) or Andrew the son. And if it's Andrew the sone fathering two children at 12 and 15 is far worse than Dinah being a single mother in 1855 - :-)
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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27 Jun 2012 19:46 |
btw ignore my marriage date for George and Sarah Ann of 1902...don't know WHY I said that ..it is of course 1880!!!!!
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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28 Jun 2012 18:19 |
Births Dec 1857 --------------------------------------- Homer John Dudley 6c 144
Ordered today......watch this space next week! :-)
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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2 Jul 2012 15:37 |
Well try number three at a birth certificate. This time for John 6c 144 and bingo!
No father....mother is Jane Homer of Woodside Dudley. So not Dinah's child but her elder sister Jane's!
Jude :-)
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