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George Henry and John Homer - Update 02/07/2012

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 27 Jun 2012 18:44

Go to last thread dated 02/07/2012!

Firstly, apologies if I have duplicated a thread. I thought I had posted this before but trawled through 10 pages of "My Threads" without success.

I first find George Henry aged 4 and John aged 3 in 1861 living at Blue Pig Row Dudley


Name: George Henry Homer
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Dudley, Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Dudley
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Dudley
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 148
Piece: 2058
Folio: 73
Page Number: 29
Household Members:
Name Age
Andrew Homer 54
Selvy Homer 56
Dinah Homer 26
Andrew Homer 17
Eliza Homer 15
Martha Homer 13
Joseph Homer 9
George Henry Homer 4
John Homer 3

Both are shown as grandsons of Andrew and Sylvia (Selvey).

Ten years later, Sylvia has died and the boys now aged 14 and 13 are living in High Street Dudley

Name: George Horner
[George Homer]
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Andrew Horner
Gender: Male
Where born: Dudley, Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Dudley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Woodside
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Dudley
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 12
Piece: 3014
Folio: 5
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Andrew Horner 64
Mary Horner 30
Eliza Horner 22
Martha Horner 20
Joseph Horner 19
George Horner 14
John Horner 13
James Lilly 21
James Pember 19

But now they are the sons of Andrew.

I have found a christening on LDS

name: George Henry Homer
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 10 Aug 1856
baptism/christening place: SAINT THOMAS,DUDLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
birth date: 06 Jun 1855
father's name: Andrew Homer
mother's name: Sylvia
indexing project (batch) number: C04014-7
system origin: England-ODM

which not only suggests George was born in 1855 (as opposed to 1857) but that he was indeed Andrew and Sylvia's son. I can't find a christening for John.. George went on to marry Sarah Ann Haddis in 1902 and from 1891 onwards his birth year is 1855.

While it is not inconceivable that they were indeed the children of Andrew and Sylvia, she would have been 45 ish in 1855 and it was four years after the birth of her last know child.

I cannot find GRO births on freebmd for either of them. I thought George could be male Homer ref vol 6c page 124 (not) and John maybe vol 6c page 5 (not) I don't find John again in the censuses and believe he may have died in 1874

I long ago had contact with someone who said that on George's marriage to Sarah Ann he had his father as Andrew. So Andrew senior - on basis that even if he was his grandfather he had raised him? Or Andrew junior who would have been 12 in 1855 :-) ?

Are there any other sources of info? Any thoughts welcome as always with thanks!

Jude

Gins

Gins Report 27 Jun 2012 19:17

1841 England Census
Name: Andrew Nomer
[Andrew Homer]
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Gender: Male
Where born: Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Dudley
Hundred: Halfshire (Lower Division)
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England

Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Dudley
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1196
Book: 12
Folio: 15
Page Number: 22
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Nomer 32
Silva Nomer 29
Jane Nomer 9
Dana Nomer 7
Sarah Ann Nomer 5
Mary Nomer 3


1851 England Census
Name: Andrew Homer
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Selina Homer
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Kingswinford, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Dudley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Dudley
ED, institution, or vessel: 1x
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 132
Piece: 2033
Folio: 71
Page Number: 33
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Homer 42
Selina Homer 38
Jane Homer 19
Donah Homer 17 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mary Homer 11
Andrew Homer 8
Eliza Homer 6
Cornelius Homer 4
Martha Homer 2


Jude

I guess they could have been the parents or one of the daughters was and they purported to be the parents?

Gins

Gins Report 27 Jun 2012 19:23

Births Sep 1857
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer George Dudley 6C 95



Births Dec 1857
---------------------------------------
Homer John Dudley 6c 144


Births Mar 1858
-------------------------------------
Homer John Dudley 6c 5


Births Jun 1859
---------------------------------------
Homer John Dudley 6c 69


Births Dec 1859
-----------------------------------------
HOMER John Dudley 6c 108



Have you tried getting any of the birth certificates Jude?

Gins

Gins Report 27 Jun 2012 19:28

Groom's Name: Andrew Homer
Bride's Name: Sylvia Wood
Marriage Date: 26 Dec 1831
Marriage Place: Saint Thomas,Dudley,Worcester,England

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M04014-4
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 378762, 378763, 378764, 378765, 378766, 378767, 378768, 378769, 378770

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 27 Jun 2012 19:32

Gins...in my tree I have them as children of Dinah (as the best guess)..this was originally based on the fact I thought she had died in 1861.....there is a death entry that fits. But then I find her - or at least I think it is her (Donah)

Name: Donah Homer
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Woodside, Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Dudley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Worcestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Dudley
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Household schedule number: 254
Piece: 3014
Folio: 53
Page Number: 52
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hadley 43
Mary Ann Hadley 43
Hannah Frens Witby 10
Donah Homer 36


I have two birth certificates....

Births Mar 1858
-------------------------------------
Homer John Dudley 6c 5

Father Ezra mother Hannah

and Male Homer 6c 124 04/04/1855..father blank mother Isabella Homer

So £18.50 for two duds :-(

Births Dec 1857
---------------------------------------
Homer John Dudley 6c 144 ...on my list to "speculate" as was

Births Sep 1857
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer George Dudley 6C 95

less likely to go for George in 1857 given the christening in 1856 saying he was born in 1855. Surer bet is George's marriage certificate which I'll probably get (pay day today ha ha!!!) but I know what it is going to say (if my previous contact is correct).....just trying to see if there were any other avenues....

Gins

Gins Report 27 Jun 2012 19:33

Hmmmm......interesting


Name: John Homer
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 25 Sep 1859
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT THOMAS,DUDLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 05 Sep 1859

Death Date: 01 Feb 1860

Father's Name: John Homer
Mothers name: Betsy

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04014-7
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 378778, 378779, 378780

safc

safc Report 27 Jun 2012 19:36

????

Name: George Henry Homer
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 10 Aug 1856
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT THOMAS,DUDLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 06 Jun 1855
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Andrew Homer
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Sylvia
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04014-7
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 378778, 378779, 378780
Reference Number:

Gins

Gins Report 27 Jun 2012 19:36

Jude

Dinah is on the two censuses that I posted so the one you have found isnt her?

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 27 Jun 2012 19:36

I think the info I have on Andrew and Selvey/Sylvia and their ancestors is as complete as it can be (I managed to latch onto several GR members with the Homers and the Woods in their trees...and their thousands put my "small" tree to shame!)

If it wasn't for the "grandsons" entry in 1861 I wouldn't ever have queried that they could be Andrew and Sylvia's sons. gree...oh for a time machine :-)

safc

safc Report 27 Jun 2012 19:40

Groom's Name: George Henry Homer
Groom's Birth Date: 1857
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 23
Bride's Name: Sara Ann Haddis
Bride's Birth Date: 1859
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 21
Marriage Date: 28 Mar 1880
Marriage Place: Dudley, Worcester, England
Groom's Father's Name: Andrew
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: John
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M01465-6
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1470600
Reference Number: 440 p 220

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 27 Jun 2012 19:42

Yes I have Dinah in 1841 and 1851 - the two you posted...and I have her in 1861 (original post where George and John are grandsons)...I then thought she had died in Q3 1861 - leaving her "sons" to be brought up by her parents.....but found the 1871 entry for Donah the servant which I am fairly sure is her.

The christening for John can't be him because he is on the 1861 and 71 censuses...and the one in the christening died in 1860.

Jude

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 27 Jun 2012 19:44

safc...yes that's why I am reluctant to spend £9.25 on that marriage certificate because it is not going to tell me anything. A decsendant of George had told me the marriage certificate shows his father as Andrew.....and as I say is that Andrew (senior) or Andrew the son. And if it's Andrew the sone fathering two children at 12 and 15 is far worse than Dinah being a single mother in 1855 - :-)

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 27 Jun 2012 19:46

btw ignore my marriage date for George and Sarah Ann of 1902...don't know WHY I said that ..it is of course 1880!!!!!

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 28 Jun 2012 18:19

Births Dec 1857
---------------------------------------
Homer John Dudley 6c 144

Ordered today......watch this space next week! :-)

HeyJudeB4Beatles

HeyJudeB4Beatles Report 2 Jul 2012 15:37

Well try number three at a birth certificate. This time for John 6c 144 and bingo!

No father....mother is Jane Homer of Woodside Dudley. So not Dinah's child but her elder sister Jane's!

Jude :-)