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Michael Charles
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3 Dec 2012 10:52 |
Problem is I cannot trace any record of their marriage if there was one.
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rootgatherer
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2 Dec 2012 18:38 |
If you buy the marriage certificate of Charles and Martha it will give her father's name assuming she knew. You would then have her maiden surname.
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Michael Charles
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2 Dec 2012 18:02 |
To Londonbelle, rootgatherer and gins Many thanks to you all for your responses which confirm the information I have collected (death of Angelina was 1896 - I wrote her DOB in error). My guess is that Martha and children adopted Charles Morris' name when they were taken in by him and without her original surname I doubt I can get much further. Martha Ball must fit into the picture somewhere: I find her in the 1881 census but then the trail goes cold. Michael
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LondonBelle
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1 Dec 2012 18:08 |
Possible baptism for Martha Ball that Michael states in his post
Name: Martha Ball Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 25 Jun 1854 Father's Name: William Ball occ Carpenter Mother's Name: Eliza Ball Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene Borough: Southwark Register Type: Parish Registers
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rootgatherer
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1 Dec 2012 18:00 |
1891
Name: Martha Williams Age: 39 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852 Relation: Servant Domestic Gender: Female Where born: London City Civil parish: Hackney Ecclesiastical parish: St John County/Island: London Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Hackney Sub-registration district: Hackney ED, institution, or vessel: 20 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 196 Folio: 11 Page Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age John Hay 44 Annie Risley 17 Caroline Clarke 15 Martha Williams 39 On image "S" for single has been overwritten with what looks like a "W".
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rootgatherer
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1 Dec 2012 17:52 |
I wonder about this?
1891
Name: Joseph Williams Age: 6 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885 Gender: Male Where born: Bethnal Green Civil parish: Leyton Ecclesiastical parish: St Johns County/Island: Essex Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: West Ham Sub-registration district: Leyton ED, institution, or vessel: Bethnal Green Parish School Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1352 Folio: 119 Page Number: 22
Also there is a Rose Williams, aged 8 years.
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LondonBelle
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1 Dec 2012 17:52 |
1881 census?
Name: Charles Morris Age: 30 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Angelina Morris Gender: Male Where born: Dover, Kent, England Civil parish: St Leonard County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 28 Westmoreland Place Condition as to marriage: Married Education:
Employment status: View image Occupation: Frame Gilder Registration district: Shoreditch Sub-registration district: Hoxton New Town ED, institution, or vessel: 10a Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 389 Folio: 113 Page Number: 15 Household Members: Name Age Charles Morris 30 Angelina Morris 27 Beatrice Morris 1
Death of Beatrice?
Deaths Sep 1885 Morris Beatrice 5 Islington 1b 227
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LondonBelle
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1 Dec 2012 17:43 |
1891 census
Name: Angelina R Morris Age: 3 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Charles Morris Mother's Name: Angelina Morris Gender: Female Where born: Islington, London, England Civil parish: Islington Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillips Town: London City County/Island: London Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Islington Sub-registration district: Islington South ED, institution, or vessel: 22a Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 169 Folio: 64 Page Number: 35 Household Members: Name Age Charles Morris 40 occ Frame Gilder? Angelina Morris 37 Angelina R Morris 3 Birth of child Angelina?
Births Jun 1888 MORRIS Angelina Ruth Islington 1b 345
Could this be Ruth in 1901 census? If so, as Rootgather suggests, perhaps the other children Mary (the same age as Ruth) and Joseph were Martha's children and assumed Charles' surname?
Wife Angelina's death
Deaths Mar 1896 Morris Angelina 43 Islington 1b 125
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rootgatherer
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1 Dec 2012 17:43 |
Thank you Gins.
I thought that I was doing something wrong.
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Gee
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1 Dec 2012 17:41 |
Ive reported that image Root, to Ancestry
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rootgatherer
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1 Dec 2012 17:33 |
1901 - unable to check Charles's occupation on original image
Name: Martha Morris Age: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Charles Morris Gender: Female Where born: Cornwall, England Civil parish: Hackney Ecclesiastical parish: Dalston St Mark County/Island: London Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Hackney Sub-registration district: Central Hackney ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 209 Piece: 216 Folio: 23 Page Number: 37 Household Members: Name Age Charles Morris 50 Martha Morris 48 Joseph Morris 18 Mary A Morris 13 Ruth Morris 13 ???
Marriages Sep 1896 Harkom Carry Louisa Edmonton 3a 603 Loveday William Frederick Edmonton 3a 603 MORRIS Charles James Edmonton 3a 603 <<<<<<< Williams Martha Annie Edmonton 3a 603 <<<<<<<<<<<
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Gee
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1 Dec 2012 17:31 |
1891 England Census Name: Charles Morris Age: 40 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Angelina Morris Gender: Male Where born: Dover, Kent, England Civil parish: Islington Ecclesiastical parish: St Phillips Town: London City County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Islington Sub-registration district: Islington South ED, institution, or vessel: 22a Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 169 Folio: 64 Page Number: 35 Household Members: Name Age Charles Morris 40 Angelina Morris 37 Angelina R Morris 3 As Joseph is with 'said' father, he could have been taken in by family or friends?
Angelina didnt die in 1853?
Martha is listed as born in Oxton, which county was this?
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LondonBelle
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1 Dec 2012 17:29 |
1901 census?
Name: Joseph Morris Age: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883 Relation: Son Father's Name: Charles Morris Mother's Name: Martha Morris Gender: Male Where born: Islington, London, England Civil parish: Hackney Ecclesiastical parish: Dalston St Mark County/Island: London Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Hackney Sub-registration district: Central Hackney ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 209 Piece: 216 Folio: 23 Page Number: 37 Household Members: Name Age Charles Morris 50 b Dover Martha Morris 48 b Cornwall Joseph Morris 18 Mary A Morris 13 Ruth Morris 13 Children all born Islington
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rootgatherer
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1 Dec 2012 17:22 |
1911
Name: Martha Morris Age in 1911: 57 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 Relation to Head: Wife Gender: Female Birth Place: Oxton Civil parish: St John-at-Hackney County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 23 Tilia Road, Lower Clapton N E Marital Status: Married Years Married: 14 Estimated Marriage Year: 1897 Registration district: Hackney Registration District Number: 11 Sub-registration district: Central Hackney ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Piece: 1079 Household Members: Name Age Charles Morris 60 French Polisher Martha Morris 57 Mary Ann Morris 24 Says second marriage on image, so perhaps Joseph was using his stepfathers name?
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rootgatherer
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1 Dec 2012 17:16 |
Marriages Dec 1909 GARRETT Rachel Eleanor Hackney 1b 863 MORRIS Joseph Hackney 1b 863
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rootgatherer
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1 Dec 2012 17:12 |
Name: Joseph Morris GPO Telegraphist Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883 Age: 26 Spouse Name: Rachel Eleanor Garrett Spouse Age: 22 Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 19 Dec 1909 Parish: Hackney St Luke Borough: Hackney Father Name: Charles Morris, French Polisher Register Type: Parish Register Spouse's Father: Ernest John Garrett, Rope Maker
Witnesses Ernest John Garrett Frederick George James Bolton Mary Morris
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LondonBelle
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1 Dec 2012 16:46 |
1911 census for Joseph & Rachel ....for ref
Name: Joseph Morris Age in 1911: 27 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: London, United Kingdom Civil parish: St John-at-Hackney County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 66 Blurton Road, Lower Clapton N E Marital Status: Married Occupation: LINEMANS Registration district: Hackney Registration District Number: 11 Sub-registration district: Central Hackney ED, institution, or vessel: 20 Piece: 1093 Household Members: Name Age Joseph Morris 27 (image states b Islington Middx) Rachel Eleanor Morris 24 (image states b Homerton Middx) Edith Jessie Morris 4 (image states 4 1/2 mths b Homerton Middx)
Married 1 year
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Michael Charles
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1 Dec 2012 16:38 |
In the 1911 census my maternal grandfather Joseph Morris lives at 66 Blurton Road, Clapton, London, and is married to Rachel (nee Garrett). In the same census his mother Martha is married to/lives with Charles Morris at 23 Tilia Road,Clapton. My grandfather was born in Islington in July 1983 but there is no record of this in BDM. The census also records that Martha and Charles ( whose first wiife Angelina died in 1853) had been together for 14 years but I can find no record of marriage in BDM. I am keen to trace my grandfather's history but have little to go on except that among papers in my late father's possession was a birth certificate copy dated 1923 for a Martha Ball (born 1854 in Bermondsey ). Same Martha? Any information would be most welcome. Michael Gillett.
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