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Following the 1937 article about dangerous driving, in 1938 John Thomas Swann successfully applied to have his driving ban lifted. The reason was that he'd recently passed a course with the Post Office telephone department and being able to drive again would be advantageous.

The John Thomas Swann who Dorothy was with was born 1871 would have been around 67 so it doesn't fit well. He and Agnes didn't seem to have any children of their own - there are no Swann/Broadhead births post 1911 that I can see. I wonder if Agnes died and he remarried and had a son named after himself?

I think the Gloucester electoral rolls may be the key to finding out who Mrs E really was but you'll need someone with knowledge of ERs to advise where they might be.

Hello Dave, of course I remember you.

I've found a link - the Gloucestershire Echo of 13 September 1937 reports on a John Thomas Swann of Field Cottage, The Burgage, Prestbury being disqualified for 12 months for dangerous driving.

Now, on page 2 at 22:52 on 28 Dec I posted the 1911 census for John Thomas Swann and Agnes where they had Dorothy with them.

EDIT: their surname and address are also in adverts for a lost ring in 1948 and selling a fox terrier in 1949.

Hi Marie Celeste
Remember me? I finally got the letter from Gloustershire Archives people to my dad which indicates in the 1940 Kelly's directory that a Mrs E Swann lived at Field Cottage The Burgage Prestbury in 1950, it's now numbered 3 The Burgage. If you recall we were trying to make the connection with the Swann family who raised my grandma ( not officially though) not sure if this enough to try find which Swann was related to her father ....can you still help?
Dave

That's great many thanks again
Dave

Dave, when you get the info about the first name we'll take it from there .......

Happy New Year to people who helped me on this earlier this month .
Just a quick update on the Cheltenham link, my dad wrote to the record office in Cheltenham and they have confirmed that a 'Mrs Swann' lived at 3 The Burgage Prestbury in 1952 which backs onto the Racecourse, he is waiting for a letter from them with the ladies first name. So I'm thinking she was possibly a brother or sister of Thomas Swann born in 1841. I dont know if this adds anything or you can help on this which will finish off the Cheltenham mystery?? The first name will definitely help!

Your so good at these little puzzles, I'm so impressed many many thanks again
Dave :-)

I've no idea why Hannah was with the Colleys as her parents seem to be alive and well - maybe she just liked staying there!

The name on this 1861 is actually Owen and the street address matches Hannah's baptism:

ORVIN, Charles Head Married M 31 1830 Labourer Leeds, Yorkshire
ORVIN, Ann Wife Married F 37 1824 Leeds, Yorkshire
ORVIN, Elizabeth Daughter F 8 1853 Leeds, Yorkshire
ORVIN, John Son M 4 1857 Leeds, Yorkshire
ORVIN, Henry Son M 1 1860 Leeds, Yorkshire
ELICE, Eliza Lodger F 24 1837 Leeds, Yorkshire
ELICE, Maria Lodger F 2 1859 Leeds, Yorkshire

Piece: 3378 Folio: 104 Page: 10
Registration District: Leeds
Civil Parish: Leeds
Municipal Borough: Leeds

Address: 26, Millwright Street, Leeds County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Here's the two sisters together in 1841:

WALSH, William M 35 1806 Yorkshire - shoemaker
WALSH, Sarah F 40 1801 Yorkshire
WALSH, Ann F 15 1826 Yorkshire <<
WALSH, Stephen M 9 1832 Yorkshire
WALSH, Jane F 4 1837 Yorkshire
WALSH, Mary F 2 1839 Yorkshire <<
INMAN, Thomas M 45 1796 Yorkshire

Piece: 1346 Book/Folio: 10/21 Page: 7
Registration District: Leeds
Civil Parish: Leeds
Municipal Borough: Leeds

Address: Byron Street, Leeds County: Yorkshire

Dave, if you go back to the 1857 marriage I posted 28 Dec 20:13 you'll see that Phillip Colley's wife was Mary Ann Walsh and her fathwer was William, a cordwainer.

I think this is the marriage of Hannah Pollard Owen's parents:

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

Name: Charles Owen, bachelor. A cloth dresser of Gower Street.
Birth Year: abt 1829
Age: 21
Marriage or Bann Date: 21 Apr 1850
Parish: Leeds, St Peter
Spouse's Name: Ann Walsh, spinster age 26 of Cloth Street.
Spouse's Father's Name: William Walsh - cordwainer.

(No father's details for Charles so he was most likely illegitimate)

Witnesses: Henry Sykes and Edwin Moore.

So, as I suspected, Hannah (Ann) Owen was the daughter of Mary Ann's sister.

In 1861 she's listed as a visitor with the Colley's (Ann and Hannah being interchangeable names):

COLLEY, Phillip Head Married M 23 1838 Carrier Leeds, Yorkshire
COLLEY, Mary Ann Wife Married F 22 1839 Leeds, Yorkshire
COLLEY, Willm Son M 3 1858 Leeds, Yorkshire
COLLEY, Sarah Jane Daughter F 1 1860 Leeds, Yorkshire
OWEN, Ann P Visitor F 8 1853 Leeds, Yorkshire

Piece: 3384 Folio: 74 Page: 16
Registration District: Leeds
Civil Parish: Leeds
Municipal Borough: Leeds

Address: 13, York Road, Leeds County: Yorkshire (West riding)

This is that Hannah character, her full middle name was shown on the marriage record to Josiah Charles Broadhead previously posted at 20:07 on 28 Dec:

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name: Hannah Pollard Owen
Birth Date: 10 Aug 1852
Parish: Leeds, St Peter
Baptism Date: 2 Sep 1860
Father's Name: Charles Owen - Labourer
Mother's Name: Ann Owen
Address: Millwright Street

She was a niece of the Colley's and was also the mother of Agness Swann (nee Broadhead)

She could actually be the daughter of one of Mary Ann's (Phillip's wife) brothers or sisters.

Postscript,
I think the Prestbury link has gone cold but thanks for the time being . I wondered if anyone has any thoughts about the Hannah Owen character who links the two families together I cant find her on the 1861 when she will have been 8 unless she came from Wales. Strange that she was living with the family. If she was Isaacs cousin (or his dad Philip's niece in the 1871 census) then surely she would be the daughter of one of Philips brothers or sisters!!!!
Any help appreciated.
Dave

Thanks everyone , sorry if I've sent you all on a wild goose chase, I need to have a conversation with my dad again and get back to you.

There's no death showing up for an Elsie * with that dob. No local marriage post 1924 when she was still single at Dorothy's marriage.

192.com had an Elsie Colley living in what would appear to be a care home - lots of other people with different names - still in Yorkshire, but I've no way of knowing if this is her.

Dorothy's oldest sister Marian dob 9/6/1894 did not marry and died in Bradford in 1982.

Clarice Ada married John Clifford Shaw, and died Bradford in 1979.

Elsie dob 2//10/1900 - not managed to find out any more just yet, but will take another look.

The eldest of John Thomas' sisters:

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910

Name: Edith Sarah Ann Swann
Birth Date: 21 Oct 1861
Parish: Leeds, St Peter
Baptism Date: 10 Nov 1861
Father's Name: Thomas Swann - press setter
Mother's Name: Dinah Swann

Lived Flint Street
______________________________________________________________

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

Name: Edith Sarah Ann Swann, spinster
Birth Year: abt 1861
Age: 24
Marriage or Bann Date: 25 Dec 1885
Parish: Leeds, All Saints
Father's Name: Thomas Swann - press setter
Spouse's Name: Christopher William Bland Holroyd, bachelor age 29. - shoe finisher
Spouse's Father's Name: John Holroyd - mechanic

Both gave address as Ascot Terrace.

Witnesses: James Edward Swann and Jane Stewart
___________________________________________________________________

In Leeds in 1911:

HOLROYD, Christpher Head Married M 52 1859 Gas Labourer Leeds Yorkshire
HOLROYD, Edith Wife Married 25 years F 49 1862 Leeds Yorkshire
HOLROYD, J Son Single M 22 1889 Cutter Clothing Trade Leeds Yorkshire
HOLROYD, Lucy Daughter Single F 20 1891 Shirt Machine Hand Leeds Yorkshire VIEW
HOLROYD, Herbert Son Single M 18 1893 Filler Ated Waters Leeds Yorkshire
HOLROYD, Harry Son Single M 16 1895 Feeders Printers Trade Leeds Yorkshire
HOLROYD, Doris Daughter Single F 14 1897 Flag Bunner Machine Hand Leeds Yorkshire
SWANN, Lilly Niece Single F 3 1908 Leeds Yorkshire

RG number: RG14 Piece: 26936
Reference: RG14PN26936 RG78PN1546 RD500 SD1 ED21 SN103
Registration District: Leeds
Sub District: South East Leeds
Enumeration District: 21
Parish: Leeds

Address: 19 Harry Crescent Leed County: Yorkshire (West riding)
_____________________________________________________________

Doesn't look like Edith ever lived in Cheltenham:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915

Name: Edith S A Holroyd
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1915
Age at Death: 53
Registration district: Leeds
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume: 9b
Page: 442

That's a good point Flip - I traced two of the sisters but the trail went a bit cold on Elsie.

I've sent the marriage image for Dorothy, which has been mis-transcribed as Cothey.

It could also be Dorothy's sister who they visited - Elsie was a witness at her marriage

See if we get anywhere with Lucy

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910
Name: Lucy Swann
Birth Date: 22 Feb 1867
Parish: Leeds, St Peter
Baptism Date: 17 Mar 1867
Father's Name: Thomas Swann - Press setter
Mother's Name: Dinah Swann

Lived St Ann's Square
___________________________________________________________________

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1935

Name: Lucy Swann, spinster of 81 Burley Lodge Terrace
Birth Year: abt 1869
Age: 24
Marriage or Bann Date: 20 May 1893
Parish: Burley, St Matthias
Father's Name: Thomas Swann (deceased) - press setter
Spouse's Name: Charles Mills, bachelor age 24. Stock cutter of 6 Spring Grove Avenue
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Mills (deceased) - Hosiery manufacturer

Witnesses: James Edward Swann and Martha Mills.
___________________________________________________________________

Still in Leeds in 1911:

MILLS, Charles Head Married M 42 1869 Clothiers Cutter Leicester Leicestershire
MILLS, Lucy Wife Married 18 years F 42 1869 Leeds Yorks
MILLS, Frank Son Single M 17 1894 Grocers Apprentice Leeds Yorks
MILLS, Harold Son Single M 13 1898 Clothiers Cutter's Apprentice Leeds Yorks
MILLS, Hilda Daughter Single F 8 1903 Leeds Yorks

RG number: RG14 Piece: 26967
Reference: RG14PN26967 RG78PN1547 RD500 SD2 ED24 SN83
Registration District: Leeds
Sub District: North Leeds
Enumeration District: 24
Parish: Leeds

Address: 83 Bayswater Road Leeds County: Yorkshire (West riding)

Only those three children born.
____________________________________________________________

They still appear to be in Leeds in 1930 when daughter Hilda married Wilfred Broadbent.