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Martha Elizabeth Goouch

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 23:12

I have run out of credits on FMP but have this in the 1891 census

Type Name Birth Year Age Sex Registration District/Parish County
Household PITT, Thomas 1846 45 M West Ham Essex

Could anyone please look and see where the Thomas and Emma were born?

Thanks :-D

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 23:07

Possible?

Marriages Sep 1884 (>99%)

Pill John W.Ham 4a 113
Pitt Emma W.Ham 4a 113
Pitt Thomas W.Ham 4a 113
Ryan Elizabeth Amelia West Ham 4a 113

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 22:41

Looks like it might be.

Back to your finds, which are really interesting.

If Emma Lake married an Alfred Pitt could he have used the name Thomas? Or could she have gone on to marry a Thomas Pitt?

I am so confused lol

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Jan 2013 22:40

JannieAnnie - Maria and Emma were called Lake?

EDIT: sorry, see where you're going. See 1911 below.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Jan 2013 22:36

I wonder if this is that chap from the 1881? The image actually says he's a naval pensioner:

PITT, Alfred James Head Married M 47 1864 H M Customs Uraval Middlesex St Pancras London
PITT, Edith Ellen Wife Married18 years F 42 1869 Southampton St Pancras
PITT, Alfred Thomas Son M 13 1898 School Southampton St Lukes
GOATER, George Gray Boarder Widower M 92 1819 Private Means Southampton St Marys

RG number: RG14 Piece: 5950
Reference: RG14PN5950 RG78PN273A RD99 SD1 ED16 SN18
Registration District: Southampton S
ub District: Southampton Eastern
Enumeration District: 16
Parish: Portswood

Address: 15 Peterboro Road Southampton County: Hampshire

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 30 Jan 2013 22:31


Wonder if this 'Thomas' has a connection? Similar age to Emma and Maria - and same area

Births Jun 1845 (>99%)
PITT Thomas Lexden &c 12 151

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 22:23

Vessel: "HMS Implacable" - Royal Navy Training Ship 1881 census

Alfred James PITT U 17 M St Pancras, Middlesex, England Boy 1 Cls

Maybe this could be him? Or would he be too old?

found it on http://www.glamorganfamilyhistory.co.uk/maritime/HMSImplacable.html

EDIT: It can't be him if the one you have found is correct as he is still at home in 1881

JannieAnnie

JannieAnnie Report 30 Jan 2013 22:18


MarieCeleste they are good finds - I found the Emma Julia Birth but not the Alfred James one

Marriages Mar 1867 (>99%)
Lake Emma Lexden 4a 322
Pitt Alfred Lexden 4a 322

Maybe the enumerator got Emma/Maria mixed up when the record was completed?

EDIT: Posting slower than MC

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Jan 2013 22:15

I think they've muddled the surnames on the 1871, this must be Emma's marriage:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1867
Lake Emma Lexden 4a 322
Pitt Alfred Lexden 4a 322

But this means the father isn't called Thomas!

This is Maria Lake's marriage, per the 1881:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Jun 1872
BUCK Edward James Colchester 4a 417
BURK Edward James Colchester 4a 417
LAKE Maria Arabella Colchester 4a 417

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 22:11

This is looking good Marie.

If this is Alfred his father could either be dead or at sea (father was a seaman after all).

I will have to order his birth certificate to see if it matches up.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Jan 2013 22:09

Here's Emma Julia's birth:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Emma Julia Pitt
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1869
Registration district: Lexden
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 289

(Lexden covers Wivenhoe)

Quite possibly your lad:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Alfred James Pitt
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1867
Registration district: Lexden
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 275

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 22:04

Can't see a Maria Lake/Pitt marriage

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 22:02

Could they have both married a Pitt?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Jan 2013 22:01

The 1871 for the same family is odd, Emma snr is still a Lake but her sister Maria is listed as Pitt??

LAKE, John Head M 67 1804 Essex
LAKE, Racheal Wife F 57 1814 Essex
LAKE, Emma Daughter F 24 1847 Essex
PITT, Maria Daughter F 28 1843 Essex
PITT, Alfred Grandson M 3 1868 Essex
PITT, Emma Granddaughter F 1 1870 Essex

Piece: 1688 Folio: 79 Page: 13
Registration District: Colchester
Civil Parish: Greenstead
Municipal Borough: Colchester

Address: Greenstead Road, Greenstead, Colchester County: Essex

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 21:59

That looks promising as well. It is looking like more certificates need ordering.

He does not name his father as deceased on the marriage certificate. I have others where people have named the father and mentioned that he was deceased at the time but not sure if this was always the case.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Jan 2013 21:55

Not sure if his dad was still alive, Jayne.

This 1881 is interesting, is this sister Emma the marriage witness?

LAKE, John Head Married M 78 1803 Sawyer Thorpe, Essex
LAKE, Rachal Wife Married F 72 1809 Colchester St Leonard
PITT, Emma Daughter Widow F 37 1844 Colchester St Leonard
PITT, Alfred Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar Wivenhoe, Essex
PITT, Emma Daughter Single F 11 1870 Scholar Wivenhoe, Essex
PITT, Thomas Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar Colchester Greenstead, Essex
BUCK, Maria Daughter Married F 32 1849 Ardleigh, Essex

Piece: 1793 Folio: 73 Page: 14
Registration District: Colchester
Civil Parish: Colchester Greenstead

Address: Greenstead Rd, Colchester Greenstead County: Essex

I'd say Alfred, Emma and Thomas are the children of widow Emma and not John and Rachel.

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 21:52

Very interesting MarieCeleste, thank you.

I will have to ask around and see what the family can tell me. I don't suppose there is a similar result for his father?

Just thinking that if his father was also a seaman they may have worked together at some point?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Jan 2013 21:43

Jayne, I'd already looked for service records for Alfred Holder, none found. However, over 60% of WW1 service records were destroyed in WW2 so his may have been one of them.

I wonder?

Honolulu, Hawaii, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1900-1959

Name: Alfred James Pitt
Age: 57
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1869
Port of Departure: Trinidad
Ship: Faraday
Port of Arrival: Honolulu, Hawaii
Arrival Date: 23 Oct 1926
Ethnicity/Race/Nationality: British

This chap is 5' 2" tall and has a tattoo.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 30 Jan 2013 21:35

Possible?

Merchant Navy Seamen 1835-1941

Last name: PITT
First names: Alfred James
Age:
Day of birth:
Month of birth:
Year of birth: 1869
Place of birth: Wivenhoe
County/country of birth: Essex
Card type: CR1
Discharge number: 250411
Identity certificate no.:
Series: BT349
Date range: 1921-1941

There are two cards for him and one was stamped 1925 but seems to have records of voyages to 1931.

He was 5' 2" tall and had a tattoo of a woman on his arm, plus a few scars.

Perhaps Martha Elizabeth got sick of him being away so took up with Holder?

JayneB

JayneB Report 30 Jan 2013 19:37

It does seem that the 2 Alfred's are different people, although your theory about him jumping ship and changing names is possible. I also think that the marriage looks interesting.

I would love to know if it is possible to search maritime records for Alfred Pitt.

I would also like to find the Army records from 1914 for Alfred Holder.

I am looking for census records for an Alfred James Pitt living with either a Thomas Pitt (father) or an Emma Julia Pitt, presumably they would be siblings? If I could find all 3 together that would be great.

A birth for Alfred would also be nice lol

:-)