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SylviaInCanada
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4 Feb 2013 04:21 |
Duncan
It might have been better received if you had said at the very beginning that you were employing a professional researcher.
As it is, I think many of us feel used by you.
We are all just members like yourself, and we use our ability, our knowledge and our PAID memberships in other sites to help members wanting help, like yourself.
You have taken advantage of our good natures.
You will only very rarely make contact with people researching your family by posting on the Community Boards ........................ what you do get are people trying to help out of the goodness of their heart.
To find out if anyone on GR has any connection with you ................ look under Search, at Search Trees.
Just one point about WW1 ...................... many units were decimated in France, and the survivors would be combined together or amalgamated into another unit, over and over and over again.
That MIGHT be one possibility.
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Duncan
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4 Feb 2013 03:50 |
Couple of comments.
1.) Flip. The researcher was working on this case simultaneously. I received confirmation the next day of William`s birthplace. That`s why.
2.) Astra. After a long search, it`s not unusual to bring in a professional. However, there is always the possibility that someone else has researched all or part of the same family already. That`s the point of joining the community board??
3.) 100 years later, what is absolute? However, 1901 and 1911 Census show Aubrey in the UK. Shipping/passenger records to South Africa, do not show Aubrey or his father Gerald, or mother Mabel Mary ( nee Moore ). As said, travel to South Africa in those days was a long & arduous journey. Ironically however if he did visit South Africa, that strengthens the case, because why else would a person venture so far on or before his 18 birthday ? ( he was 18 in 1915 - the year 2 SAI was formed ).
It`s not impossible that he joined 2 SAI in Bordon or in Egypt, in a Beau Geste type enrolment without consent of his parents. Very unlikely though. 2 SAI was fully formed before leaving Cape Town. Wherever he joined up, why a South African outfit ? Recall in 1915 the manpower shortage was in full swing. Kitchener`s poster was everywhere - " your country needs you ! " etc etc. Enlisting in a British unit would have been a snap. Why the only South African brigade in the entire BEF ? Obvious question - did he have a relative there? If so, just like in Brian Lynn`s case, was his brothers name Neville, in honor of a lost relative, namely Aubrey Neville? In other words, the two sets of Hutchinson`s were related? Maybe we will never know.
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SylviaInCanada
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3 Feb 2013 23:08 |
Reggie
I also thought that .............. so you were not the only one!!
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ErikaH
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3 Feb 2013 23:02 |
Am I the only one who thought the following to be somewhat patronising?
"Some really good dialogue and excellent work."
We aren't students whose work has to be assessed....................
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SylviaInCanada
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3 Feb 2013 21:44 |
looks like we've wasted our time
and been taken advantage of
Not impressed one little tiny bit
another name to watch out for in future?
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Flip
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3 Feb 2013 14:01 |
There are some flaws in this research - "So, the Hutchinson tree that migrated to Africa in 1849 is complete." .....really, what happened to answering the questions posed about Eleanor & her death? What happened to the 2 children (that we know of)? Where is the proof Eleanor returned to England, and did her children come too?
Would you really credit that birth in Brighton in 1816 as the right one without further proof - he could be anyone - like Duncan himself says, there were a lot of William Hutchinson's around at the time of the 1841 census!
Incidently, Mary Ann Barns (as posted by Chris) was still around in 1901 and died in 1910:
Mary Ann Barns << of Ingleside, Milton Road, Westcliffe Probate Date: 1 Nov 1910 Death Date: 8 Oct 1910 Death Place: Essex, England Registry: London, England
left the tidy sum of £5485 plus pence!
Duncan, none of us have found a likely death, so exactly which death certificate have you ordered for Eleanor please?
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MarieCeleste
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3 Feb 2013 12:29 |
Duncan, how do you know that Aubrey Neville Hutchinson had never previously been to South Africa?
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Chris Ho :)
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3 Feb 2013 10:15 |
Deaths Jun 1890 (>99%) ------------------------------------------------------- Barns Robert John 63 Liverpool 8b 55
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 Name: Robert John Barns Probate Date: 13 Nov 1890 Death Date: 14 May 1890 Death Place: Essex, England Registry: Principal Registry
(late of Ingleside, Southend, Essex. Cattle Owner died 14th May 1890 Liverpool, Lancaster was proved by Mary Ann Barns widow, William Cockerill Bardwell of Fernbank, Carlton Road, Romford, Essex, Railway Clerk. two of Executors for English Property) Personal Estate £667 15s 8d
1891 BARNS, Mary A Head Widow F 60 1831 Living On Her Own Means Southwood, Suffolk (Southwold?) BAKER, Mary J Servant Single F 17 1874 General Servant Domestic Boxford, Berkshire Piece: 1392 Folio: 48 Page: 23 Registration District: Rochford Civil Parish: Mundon Municipal Borough: St Marys Convent Address: Ingleside, Milton Road, Mundon, Prittlewell, St Marys Convent County: Essex
Chris :)
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ErikaH
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3 Feb 2013 09:38 |
That's a good researcher you've got
Found the info about William in the space of two days, which is remarkable.
However, as you had employed a researcher, one has to question your motives in posting on here.
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Chris Ho :)
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3 Feb 2013 09:34 |
Marriages Dec 1849 (>99%) ----------------------------------------------------- Barns Robert John Ipswich 12 733 Land Mary Ann Ipswich 12 733
His brother in law, Robert John Barns - also his business partner, married a Mary Ann Land in 1849 in Bradfield, and both couples sailed on the same ship out to Natal. Both men were graziers by profession
(taken from below)
http://www.justanswer.com/genealogy/7ipe0-hi-i-attempting-find-part-uk.html
Chris :)
(have you found Robert 1841?)
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Astra
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3 Feb 2013 08:06 |
So.........if you have had a researcher trace William and his family in SA why did you ask the question in the first place??
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Flip
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3 Feb 2013 08:02 |
But in your original post and later response you stated you didn't know where William was born - that was what your were looking for. Then you brought in that you were getting Eleanor's death certificate - but there is none registered in the year/place you state?
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Duncan
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3 Feb 2013 07:44 |
Folks
Some really good dialogue and excellent work. I have had a researcher track down William Hutchinson. Born Brighton 1816. So, the Hutchinson tree that migrated to Africa in 1849 is complete. However one last question remains. There was another Hutchinson of interest. The Hutchinson`s I have researched, lost a son DIA in WW1 in Tanzania ( a German colony then ), he was my wife`s great uncle, Percy LYNN Hutchinson. Eleanor Rose Hutchinson was his grandmother. Sadly, my wife`s father, Maj Brian LYNN Hutchinson SAAF was also killed on a bombing mission over Hungary on 7/8 1944 in the next war.
But there was an Aubrey Neville Hutchinson, KIA on 15/7/1916 at Delville Wood on the Somme. Aubrey was born in 1897 in Chelsea. His father, Gerald Pembertion Hutchinson, was born in 1867 in Rugby. Aubrey Neville as a young man of 19, born & raised in the UK, died as a member of South African forces! It took 8 weeks by ship to SA from Plymouth then. German submarines were active. Why travel 6000 miles to enlist in a unit in a country you have never been to? Gazillions of British units to have enlisted in in 1915! Unless, in SA there was family ?? Brian Lynn`s middle brother was named Herbert NEVILLE Hutchinson. Coincidence? I plan to visit Aubrey Neville`s memorial at Thiepval coming June. I wonder if there was a connection prior to William?
Duncan.
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ErikaH
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2 Feb 2013 10:18 |
There isn't a death in Christchurch district in 1915 for anyone name Eleanor R *******.
What leads you to think she returned to England? Do you have documents to support the theory?
Who registered William's death?
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ErikaH
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2 Feb 2013 10:09 |
The marriage cert must include at least the names of witnesses.........what are they? They could provide clues
If no father is named for either party, the assumption must be that both were illegitimate
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Astra
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2 Feb 2013 08:02 |
Can't find a death for Eleanor though
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Flip
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2 Feb 2013 07:34 |
So I wonder which death Duncan has found??
I can't see Eleanor on incoming passenger lists either, but there is a possible re-marriage for William in Pietermaritzburg 11/1/1856 - to Louisa Bishop (age 30), they were both widowed, and his birth given as 1817.
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Astra
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2 Feb 2013 07:20 |
No it's obviously not the right one. I have traced them right back too.
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Flip
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2 Feb 2013 06:45 |
It can't be the right death, as Eleanor and Alice Roger-Barns are on all the census together back to 1881, and Eleanor was recorded as a widow on each, with Alice as her adopted daughter.
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Astra
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2 Feb 2013 06:43 |
This looks like the family that the probate record is for.
National Archive Reference: RG14PN5861 RG78PN267 RD95 SD2 ED30 SN240 Reg. District: Christchurch Sub District: Bournemouth Parish: Bournemouth Enum. District: 30 Address: 25 King's Park Road Springbourne Bournemouth County: Hampshire Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born BARNS, Alice Rogers Head Single F 49 1862 Retired Governess India Bombay Resident BARNS, Eleanor Mother By Adopted Widow F (N K) Retired School Mistress Private Wales Anglesea RICKETTS, Susan Servant Single F 60 1851 Cook Domestic Somerset Yeovil DAVIS, Maggie Rose Servant Single F 19 1892 House - Parlourmaid Domestic Hants Bournemouth Springbourne
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