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John Mckeand/Elizabeth McCourtie c1811-1890's

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Potty

Potty Report 11 Feb 2013 12:29

Well done, Helen. Looks like two more death regs to look at! Here's the 1841:

1841 Scotland Census
about Alexr McCourty
Name: Alexr McCourty
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1781
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland

Civil parish: Urr
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Meckle Richorn
Occupation: Ag Lab
Parish Number: 884
Household Members: Name Age
Alexr McCourty 60
Margaret McCourty 55


Helen

Helen Report 11 Feb 2013 12:17

For interest:

1851 Scotland Census about Alexander Mc Caurtie
Name: Alexander Mc Caurtie
Age: 70
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1781
Relationship: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret Mc Caurtie
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkcudbrig, Kirkcudbright
Parish Number: 884
Civil parish: Urr
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Shennan Creek On Mickle Richorn Farm
Occupation: Agricultural Labourer
ED: 10
Page: 13 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 48
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1851_214
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Mc Caurtie 70
Margaret Mc Caurtie 71
James Grierson 14



1861 Scotland Census about Alexander Mccourtie
Name: Alexander Mccourtie
Age: 81
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1780
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Margaret Mccourtie
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkcudbright, Kirkcudbright
Registration number: 864
Registration district: Dalbeattie
Civil parish: Dalbeattie ***
Town: Dalbeattie
County: Kirkcudbrightshire
Address: Water Street
Occupation: Labourer Pauper
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 23
Line: 17
Roll: CSSCT1861_146
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Mccourtie 81
Margaret Mccourtie 82
Margaret Rigslop 57


Possible death:
Alexander McCourtie (age 82yrs)
1861
County: Kircudbright
District: Dalbeattie ***


Possible death:
Margaret McCourty (age 88yrs)
1870
County: Kirkcudbright
District: Borgue




Potty

Potty Report 11 Feb 2013 11:41

Yes, Corra does exist. A google search brings up a few hits. The most likely one is as a name as a farm (there is also a castle and a hill with that name). Probably where Elizabeth was living at the time. This is the link to a map showing it - it is just ~South of Kirkgunzeon~:

http://maps.nls.uk/os/6inch/view/?sid=74427646&zoom=7&lat=1551.88839&lon=8762.5&layers=B#sid=74427646&zoom=5&lat=4689.38839&lon=7823.5&layers=BT

This website has old maps and lots of info about Scotland:

http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 10 Feb 2013 21:44

Thank you again for your efforts. That Kirkcudbright website entry certainly seems to be the right couple - even if his name is spelt strangely and her place of origin is not Kelton as it should be. Do you think Corra actually exists or is that just another transcription glitch?
Your original guess that the transcribed record I'm hoping to get from FamilySearch may have been the banns rather than the actual marriage looks like a good one, since the date of the marriage you've just found is some months later than the date I had
As for why none of this is apparently on Scotlandspeople - I can only guess that the original record is so hard to decipher that different transcribers have come up with different interpretations of the spelllings. I feel that I am now convinced that this marriage took place in 1832 - even if I can't ever get the documents to prove it. I've found records for the births of their children and records of the couple in the census, so they were undoubtably a family even if they didn't manage to get their marriage recorded for posterity!

Needless to say I can't find a death or birth record for John's father Alexander McKeand (who I estimate lived from c1770 to 1845) nor his wife Mary but I'm rapidly losing the will to go on looking!

Potty

Potty Report 10 Feb 2013 17:05

Just checked on scotlandspeople and it doesn't list the parish of Buittle. That's odd as the parish records must exist as they have been transcribed on the above site.

Gets odder! Buittle is there for 1805 but not 1732. I was searching in the wrong century! Buittle is there for 1832 but the McKinna marriage isn't coming up!

Potty

Potty Report 10 Feb 2013 16:58

This website has the marriage!
http://www.kirkcudbright.co/historyarticle.asp?ID=32&p=2&g=2

You need to scroll down the page and it is under the name of McKinna:

27-Nov 1832 John McKinna (Balmaghie) married Elizabeth McCourtie (Corra)

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 10 Feb 2013 16:44

Thanks. This is definately Elizabeth McCourty's parents. I've found them in the 1841 census aged 60 and 55- rounded of course. I've also found records for 3 more of their children - James Mccourty(1806) Janet Mccourty (1808) and Alexander (1819). By the 1851 Census he is showing up as a widower with one child, Margaret.

I will add the McCourty parents marriage date to my tree.It's interesting that they married in Buittle - that adds credibility to the record i'm trying to get my hands on for their daughter's marriage which I believe was in the same place.

I also think that I've found a record of Alexander McCourty's birth in July 1780 in Twynholm - which fits nicely with the 1841 census record. Guess what his father's name was? Alexander again!
I'm beginning to feel I could just make this tree up by recycling the same names over and over again!!

Helen

Helen Report 10 Feb 2013 15:38

Possible marriage ..

Margaret Crosbie and Alexander Courtas
6th December 1805
Buittle, Kirkcudbright, Scotland

Can also be viewed on Scotlandspeople .. using the spelling variation ..Courtas

Potty

Potty Report 10 Feb 2013 11:26

Glad to have been able to help, Ann. Yes, Scottish records are much better than English and by using scotlandspeople, you can see the details straight away and more cheaply than buying English certs but bear in mind that the details are sometimes inaccurate. I have one couple who on a child's birth give the place of their marriage as the village in which I live but the marriage actually took place in a Manse some 8 miles away in a different Parish! So, as always, info only as good as the informant knows or remembers!

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 10 Feb 2013 10:58

Potty
Thank you so much for the suggestion that I should look for John McKeand's death rather than birth. I had no idea the Scottish death records were so informative - a bit like 1855 birth records! (Usually death records are just those index things which tell you nothing and you have to buy the certificate to find out it's the wrong person!)

I'm delighted to report that I have found the right record (from 1887).It not only confirms that his father was called Alexander, gives me a fairly illegible mother's maiden name (McDowell/McDonald?) to start working on but also has the informant being the son John S McKeand described as county Police Officer Garston Liverpool - which is exactly right!

This may be as far as I can go but I'm really chuffed to have this document!

I await a reply from the Familysearch people as to whether they can supply a copy of the marriage record they've got. I can't locate that McKind marriage record you refer to on Scotlandspeople but I don't think I'll spend any more credits on that until I've heard from the other source. :-)

Potty

Potty Report 9 Feb 2013 16:03

Just to give you some idea of the geography of the area (there is also a Kelton in Dumfries-shire)

"Kelton, Kirkcudbrightshire...It is bounded on the north, by Crossmichael; on the east, by Buittle; on the south, by Rerwick and Kirkcudbright; and on the west, by the river Dee, which separates it from Balmaghie and Tongland.

Potty

Potty Report 9 Feb 2013 15:57

The familysearch record for the 1832 marriage has him as John McKind; scotlandspeople has a marriage for a John McKind to an Elizabeth on 12 August 1832 - not McCourtie and not in either Kirkcudbrightshire or Dumfries-shire. The familysearch record could be banns not marriage.

Potty

Potty Report 9 Feb 2013 15:04

AnnMac

Have you looked for deaths for John and Elizabeth on scotlandspeople? If they died after 1855 their death registrations should have their parents' names. Do you know that Scottish registrations have more info that English & Welsh ones? ie, birth regostrations give date and place of parents' marriage; marriages give names of mothers as well as fathers and deaths give parents' names.

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 9 Feb 2013 14:51

Just spotted a second family called McKeand living near my lot in a village in Borgue in 1841 (same census page). Head of that household is called William McKeand, shown as 5 years older than my John McKeand but 1841 was the year of roundings so the age gap could be less. So I've searched for William's birth and up it came straight away - July 1812 in Colvend, Kirkcudbrightshire. Why can't my direct line ancestors be so easy to find? Interesting detail which seems to provide a link - William's father was called Alexander. I reckon that's the 70 yr old Alexander who was living with the younger brother a few doors away. Guesswork of course but progress of sorts! Bad news is that the baptism record is very blotchy so the mother's name isn't visible. So I've got no more names to assist the search.
I'll have to admit defeat soon!

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 9 Feb 2013 12:25

I've contacted the LatterDay Saints/Family Search website and they've given me an email address to apply to for a hard copy. In case this is of interets to others, the email address is photoduplication@familysearch.org.
I've now sent them all the reference numbers from the record I found and wait to see what their response is. No indication yet of what they will charge, but if I can get an email image or a hard copy in the post it will be a lot better than travelling to Cardiff to look at a microfilm. Fingers crossed!

BeverleyW

BeverleyW Report 9 Feb 2013 08:34

From the FamilySearch site:

The Vital Records Index - Western Europe contains information from birth, christening, and marriage records from selected localities in Western European countries. The Western Europe Indexes include:

Records that cover an approximate time period from the late 1500s to the late 1800s. In a few cases they may range into the early 1900s.
Church records and civil registrations.
Approximately 10 million birth or christening records and 2.5 million marriages records.
Names of the principal individual, his or her parents, and, for christenings, often the grandparents.
Birth, christening, death, and marriage event dates and places.
Source reference information that allows you to refer back to the original record on microfilm.

You can view the index at many FamilySearch Centers. <<<<<<<

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 8 Feb 2013 23:55

My nearest centre is Cardiff which isn't too inconvenient - I'm just not sure what you get to see from their microfilms and whether you can take copies! I'd be glad to hear from anyone else with experience of this process.

BeverleyW

BeverleyW Report 8 Feb 2013 22:57

I don't live in England or anywhere which has a Family Search Centre in near proximity.
I agree with you that the marriage record you have found on FamilySearch looks like the right one. I can only think that in transcription there has been a slip. There are so many possible variations both of McKeand and McCourtie that finding the right combination of spellings would be a miracle!
Depending on where you live, perhaps you could get in touch with a Family Search centre to find the original image. Don't expect much information though, you might be disappointed.

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 8 Feb 2013 22:54

Just found Elisabeth McCourtie's parents in 1841 census. Doesn't help pin down Elisabeth's marriage but a slight sense of satisfaction all the same!

1841 census transcription details for: Meckle Richorn, Meckle Richorn, Urr

National Archive Reference:
RG number:
Piece:884
Book/Folio:7
Page:15
Reg. District:
Sub District:
Parish:Urr

City/Municipal Borough:
Address:Meckle Richorn, Meckle Richorn, Urr

County:Kirkcudbrightshire

MCCOURTY, Alexr M 60 1781 Ag Lab Kirkcudbrightshire

MCCOURTY, Margaret F 55 1786 Kirkcudbrightshire


Why are all these old chaps called Alexander and all agricultural labourers! Very confusing.

AnnMac

AnnMac Report 8 Feb 2013 22:42

Thanks for the suggestion but I'm afraid this turns out to be an Elizabeth McCartney and a John Thompson, married in Rerrick, which isn't a part of Kirkcudbrightshire that has cropped up before . So not a good match on the names or the location. Plus the date would make their first two children illegitimate.Not that that would be that unusual I suppose but taken togehther I don't think this is it!

The problem is that so much of the Buittle record on Familysearch sounds right - the date, their names are almost exactly right bar a bit of funny spelling, and the location is pretty close to where they both came from. I just can't fathom what record the Familysearch people have found that I can't get hold of! I'm wondering if I can get an image direct from them. Have you ever tried that?