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KathleenBell
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25 Feb 2013 00:09 |
This looks like Susannah Tuthill in the 1851 census in Wangford Union Workhouse:-
1851 census transcription details for: Workhouse Of The Wangford Union,
National Archive Reference: RG number: HO107 Piece: 1804 Folio: 276 Page: 6 Reg. District: Wangford Sub District: Beccles Parish: Shipmeadow Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Shipmeadow County: Suffolk
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
TUTHILL, Susannah F 1 1850 Redisham, Suffolk
Also there is William Tuthill, a pauper aged 30, his wife Mary Ann aged 30, William aged one as well as Susannah.
Kath. x
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Anne
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24 Feb 2013 11:21 |
Thank you again Astra. Once again you have come up trumps. Yes it could definitely be Tuthill.
Anne
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Astra
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24 Feb 2013 06:40 |
.This looks as though it could be the marriage. Could it be Tuthill on the certificate?
Marriages Dec 1870 (>99%) Smith Johnnathan Blything 4a 1513 TUTHILL Susannah Blything 4a 1513
Susannah may have died in 1872
Deaths Sep 1872 (>99%) Smith Susannah 22 Blything 4a 419
This is her with Jonathan in 1871
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG10 Piece: 1771 Folio: 60 Page: 13 Reg. District: Blything Sub District: Wenhaston Parish: Westhall Enum. District: 5 Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: The Race Horse Inn, Westhall County: Suffolk Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born SMITH, Jonathan Head M 21 1850 Suffolk SMITH, Susannah Wife F 21 1850 Suffolk TUTHILL, James Lodger M 13 1858 Suffolk
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KathleenBell
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23 Feb 2013 22:19 |
If you ordered the certificate from the GRO then I would phone them and ask if someone there could possibly have a lok at the record and see if they can read the name.
I have done this in the past and they are very helpful and most of the staff are used to reading what is written on old certificates.
Kath. x
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Anne
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23 Feb 2013 18:37 |
Hi guys; Thanks for all your help. I have just received the birth certificate for Caroline Smith as Astra suggested. It is the same family. Her father was Jonathan Smith as in the 1851/1861 census. Her mother is named as Susanna Smith. My next problem is the only word on the birth certificate I can't read is Susanna's maiden name. Has anyone any ideas, what I can do next.
Anne
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Astra
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11 Feb 2013 07:17 |
I think that there were two daughters. Emma and Charlotte so Caroline could belong to either of them.
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KathleenBell
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10 Feb 2013 22:41 |
If you buy the birth certificate that Astra posted earlier then it should at least name her mother. Do you know if her grandparents had a daughter at all?
EDIT - Looks like her grandparents DID have a daughter called Emma born c.1852 so it's possible that she is Caroline's mother:-
1861 census transcription details for: Rumburgh
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG09 Piece: 1181 Folio: 37 Page: 1 Reg. District: Blything Sub District: 2 Halesworth Parish: Rumburgh Enum. District: 11 Ecclesiastical District: Norwich City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Rumburgh County: Suffolk
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SMITH, John Head Married M 45 1816 Agricultural Labourer Rumburgh, Suffolk SMITH, Caroline Wife Married F 40 1821 Fressingfield, Suffolk SMITH, James Son Unmarried M 18 1843 Agricultural Labourer St Margaret Whitehall, Suffolk SMITH, Jonathan Son M 12 1849 Halesworth, Suffolk SMITH, Emma Daughter F 9 1852 Halesworth, Suffolk<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Kath. x
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Gwyn in Kent
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10 Feb 2013 16:54 |
Sometimes fathers of illegitimate children are named in a baptism register.
Gwyn
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Anne
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10 Feb 2013 16:38 |
Thank you all for your help. Vera has found the right family and as you say it looks like Caroline born 1872 Westhall was raised by her grandparents as per the 1881 census. I can only presume one of their sons i.e. George, James or Jonathan was her father. Which one though I don't know and I am struggling how to find out. As for the marriage, yes she married George Smith Howells in Wangford in 1892 ref 4a 1035 and I do have a copy of the marriage certificate but as I explained her fathers name is not on it.
Anne
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Vera
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9 Feb 2013 23:26 |
1851
SMITH, John Head Married M 33 1818 Farm Labourer Rumburgh, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, Caroline Wife Married F 30 1821 Fressingfield, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, George Son M 11 1840 Rumburgh, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, James Son M 7 1844 St Margaret's, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, Charlott Daughter F 3 1848 Rumburgh, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, Jonathan Son M 1 1850 Halesworth, Suffolk VIEW Piece: 1803 Folio: 590 Page: 37 Registration District: Blything Civil Parish: Halesworth Municipal Borough: Address: Mill Hill, Halesworth County: Suffolk
1861 Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Disability Where born Image SMITH, John Head Married M 45 1816 Agricultural Labourer Rumburgh, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, Caroline Wife Married F 40 1821 Fressingfield, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, James Son Unmarried M 18 1843 Agricultural Labourer St Margaret Whitehall, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, Jonathan Son M 12 1849 Halesworth, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, Emma Daughter F 9 1852 Halesworth, Suffolk VIEW Piece: 1181 Folio: 37 Page: 1 Registration District: Blything Civil Parish: Rumburgh Municipal Borough: Address: Rumburgh County: Suffolk
Regards Vera
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Vera
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9 Feb 2013 23:18 |
1881 for ref.
SMITH, John Head Married M 65 1816 Farmer Of 47 Acres Employing 1 Labour Rumburgh, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, Caroline Wife Married F 60 1821 Fressingfield, Suffolk VIEW GOOCH, John Grand Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar Westhall, Suffolk VIEW SMITH, Caroline Grand Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar Westhall, Suffolk VIEW Piece: 1896 Folio: 17 Page: 6 Registration District: Wangford Civil Parish: St Margaret Ilketshall Municipal Borough: Address: Grub Lane, St Margaret Ilketshall County: Suffolk
Regards Vera
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LondonBelle
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9 Feb 2013 19:26 |
Following on from Astra's find, Caroline in 1891 census? Note Grandfather living with her in 1901 census
Name: Caroline Smith Age: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872 Relation: Granddaughter Gender: Female Where born: Westhall, Suffolk, England Civil parish: Ilketshall St Lawrence Ecclesiastical parish: Ilketshall St Lawrence County/Island: Suffolk Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Wangford Sub-registration district: Bungay ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1487 Folio: 7 Page Number: 5 Household Members: Name Age John Smith 75 b Rumburgh Caroline Smith 70 Caroline Smith 19 George Smith 8/12 Grandson
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MarieCeleste
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9 Feb 2013 19:20 |
Re: the Dec 1892 marriages - I found a George and Esther Quantrill together in 1901 and I think this is the other pair:
BIRD, Benjaman Head Married M 35 1866 Maltsters Labourer Mettingham, Suffolk BIRD, Carloine Wife Married F 37 1864 Barnby, Suffolk BIRD, Ethel Daughter F 8 1893 Bungay, Suffolk BIRD, Voilet Daughter F 6 1895 Mettingham, Suffolk BIRD, Maud Daughter F 1 1900 Mettingham, Suffolk
Piece: 1798 Folio: 162 Page: 5 Registration District: Wangford Civil Parish: Mettingham
Address: Low Road, Mettingham County: Suffolk
EDIT: Think this one's too old. The one that Astra posted above looks much more likely.
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Astra
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9 Feb 2013 19:19 |
If this is her she appears to have been raised by her grandparents.
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG13 Piece: 1798 Folio: 5 Page: 2 Reg. District: Wangford Sub District: Bungay Parish: Ilketshall St Lawrence Enum. District: 1 Ecclesiastical District: St Lawrence Ilketshall City/Municipal Borough: Address: Cottages By, Turnpike Road, Ilketshall St Lawrence, St Lawrence Ilketshall County: Suffolk Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born HOWELL, Caroline Smith Wife Married F 28 1873 Westhall, Suffolk HOWELL, George S Son M 10 1891 St Lawrence, Suffolk HOWELL, Simpson S Son M 7 1894 Spexhall, Suffolk HOWELL, Thomas S Son M 5 1896 Spexhall, Suffolk SMITH, John Grand Father Widower M 86 1815 Rumburgh, Suffolk
This will be her birth registration I think
Births Sep 1871 (>99%) SMITH Caroline Blything 4a 655
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LondonBelle
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9 Feb 2013 19:03 |
Possibly 1892?
Marriages Dec 1892 Bird Benjamin Wangford 4a 1977 GODFREY Esther Wangford 4a 1977 QUANTRILL George Wangford 4a 1977 SMITH Caroline Wangford 4a 1977
If so, was it Benjamin or George that Caroline married?
EDIT
or this marriage?
Marriages Mar 1892 HOWELL George Smith Wangford 4a 1035 Smith Caroline Wangford 4a 1035
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Astra
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9 Feb 2013 18:56 |
Who did she marry please and can you confirm the date was 1894?
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Anne
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9 Feb 2013 18:46 |
Hi Vera
She is Caroline Smith; there is no occupation for her on her marriage certifcate; she is 20 at the time of her marriage; and she was marriage in the registration district of Wangford in Suffolk. The witnesses on the certificate are relations of the bridegroom.
Anne
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Gwyn in Kent
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8 Feb 2013 20:13 |
It is worth tracking the person back and forward in census incase any clues can be found. I have a marriage certificate for 1902 where the bride's father is not named, but research showed that he actually registered her birth with her mother's maiden surname.
Gwyn
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ErikaH
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8 Feb 2013 17:16 |
Sorry, but you have very little chance of getting the info.
No father's name on cert means illegitimate
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Vera
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8 Feb 2013 17:06 |
Hi, Whats the name, age, occupation and place, named on the marriage certificate please? What are the names of the witness' on the marriage certificate please?
Regards Vera
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