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Is this a safe assumption to make?

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Ashley

Ashley Report 23 Feb 2013 09:59

Hi
Thanks to everyone for all their look-ups, help and suggestions. I will work my way through the information and hopefully be able to unravel the relationships.
Many thanks again
Ashley

Flip

Flip Report 23 Feb 2013 05:19

Could this be your James, age is better and father is a farmer;

James Haworth
Birth Date: 28 Apr 1845
Baptism Date: 9 Jun 1845
Parish: Haslingden
Father: James Haworth
Mother: Anne Haworth
Reference Number: Pr 3016 1/16

James Haworth
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James Haworth
Mother's name: Ann Haworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Bury, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Tottington Lower End
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Bury
Sub-registration district: Holcombe <<<<<<<
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 247
Piece: 2837
Folio: 136
Page Number: 40
Household Members: Name Age
James Haworth 50 (farmer)
Ann Haworth 46
Ann Haworth 22
Alice Haworth 20
Martha Haworth 18
James Haworth 16
Joseph Livsey 50

Ann Haworth
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: James Haworth
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Haslingden, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Tottington Lower End
Ecclesiastical parish: Holcombe
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Bury
Sub-registration district: Holcombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 2e
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 107
Piece: 2212
Folio: 133
Page Number: 26
Household Members: Name Age
James Haworth 41
Ann Haworth 36
Ann Haworth 13
Alice Haworth 12
Martha Haworth 9
James Haworth 6




mgnv

mgnv Report 23 Feb 2013 04:42

Although this page is at Ancestry, I couldn't find it at FMP:

1861 Census
Piece: RG9/2852 Place: Elton -Lancashire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Elton Ecclesiastical Parish: All Saints
Folio: 27 Page: 47 Schedule: 229
Address: 4 Fourth Street Daisey Field
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
NUTTALL Robert Head M M 38 Engine Tenter Lancashire - Golinder
NUTTALL Helen Wife M F 37 Lancashire - Haslingden
NUTTALL Sarah Ann Dau - F 15 Cotton Weaver Lancashire - Walmsley
NUTTALL Elizabeth Dau - F 13 Throstle Spinner Lancashire - Walmsley
NUTTALL Alfred Thomas Son - M 6m Lancashire - Elton
PORTER Mary Lodger W F 50 Cotton Reeler Lancashire - Heywood
PORTER William Son - M 8 Scholar Lancashire - Bury


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1843
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
NUTTALL Robert MAIDEN Ellen Rochdale, St Chad Rochdale CE11/7/287
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NXLV-BL2
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NKKG-1MQ

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
1844 NUTTALL Mary Ann Bury North Bury MAIDEN BN/6/85
1845 NUTTALL Sarah Ann Bury North Bury MAIDEN BN/8/7
1847 NUTTALL Elizabeth Bury North Bury MAIDEN BN/10/40
1860 NUTTALL Alfred Elton Bury MAIDEN ELT/14/90
1863 NUTTALL Mary Ellen Elton Bury MAIDEN ELT/16/96

Reggie

Reggie Report 23 Feb 2013 00:08

This looks like the one born 1849

1891 England Census
Name: James Haworth
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Theresa Haworth
Gender: Male
Where born: Edenfield, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Haslingden
Ecclesiastical parish: Musbury
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Haslingden
Sub-registration district: Haslingden
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3354
Folio: 145
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
James Haworth 41
Theresa Haworth 26
Martha A Haworth 1
Ellen Haworth 11/12
Helen A Schofield 47 Mother in Law

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Feb 2013 23:58

1881 England Census about James Howarth
Name: James Howarth
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah A. Howarth
Gender: Male
Where born: Holcombe, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Salford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 256 & 258 Ordsall Lane
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Beer Retailer
Registration district: Salford
Sub-registration district: Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 65
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3974
Folio: 22
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
James Howarth 35
Sarah A. Howarth 35 born Liverpool
William Howarth 8
Betty Howarth 14

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Feb 2013 23:53

Marriage: 1 Aug 1867 St Bartholomew, Salford, Lancashire, England
James Howarth - 22, Weaver, Bachelor, Carr St Ramsbottom
Sarah Ann Nuttall - 22, Cotton Weaver, Spinster, Derwent St Salford
Groom's Father: James Howarth, Farmer
Bride's Father: Robert Nuttall, Engineer
Witness: Edmund Nuttall; Eliza Yates
Married by Certificate by: H J Meres
Register: Marriages 1846 - 1869, Page 202, Entry 403
Source: LDS Film 1786463

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Feb 2013 23:49

How do you 'know' where he was born?

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 22 Feb 2013 23:49

One yr old on the 1851 census at Pickle Slacks and his mother is widowed
Name: Matty Haworth
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Bury, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: Tottington Higher End
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:
Registration district: Haslingden
Sub-registration district: Rossendale
ED, institution, or vessel: 1a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 16
Piece: 2249
Folio: 325
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Matty Haworth 32
Alice Haworth 8
John Haworth 6
Mary Haworth 4
James Haworth 1

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Feb 2013 23:38

Look for the whole family..............follow them through the censuses.

Baptism: 16 Apr 1843 Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire, England
Alice Haworth - Daughter of James Haworth & Matty
Abode: Pikehill Slack
Occupation: Farmer
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1852 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 141, Entry 1127
Source: LDS Film 1545476

Baptism: 4 May 1845 Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire, England
John Haworth - Son of James Haworth & Matty
Abode: Pike Hill Slacks
Occupation: Farmer
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1852 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 170, Entry 1355
Source: LDS Film 1545476

Baptism: 7 Apr 1847 Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire, England
Mary Haworth - Daughter of James Haworth & Matty
Abode: Pike hill Slackey Edenfield
Occupation: Farmer
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1852 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 195, Entry 1554
Source: LDS Film 1545476

Baptism: 29 Jul 1849 Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancashire, England
James Haworth - Son of James Haworth & Matty
Abode: Pike Hill Slacks
Occupation: Farmer
Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1852 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 224, Entry 1785
Source: LDS Film 1545476

Ashley

Ashley Report 22 Feb 2013 20:12

thanks

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 22 Feb 2013 19:56

The best way to be 100% sure is to buy the birth cert for jnr

2 or 3 years old for baptism is not out of the way,

often baptisms where done as soon after birth when the child was ill and if they thought the child would not survive which is why so many where done close to the dob

Roy

Gins

Gins Report 22 Feb 2013 19:52

Try and find the birth reg for him and buy the certificate


http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi?county=lancashire

Marked As Answer Marked as Answered

Ashley

Ashley Report 22 Feb 2013 19:20

I've been looking back at my 2xG Grandfather James Haworth who I know to have been born around 1846 in Holcombe, Bury, Lancashire. I have found the record of his marriage to Sarah Ann Nuttall on 1st August 1867 and the entry states his father to be (also) James Haworth, farmer.
Using the parish clerks register on line I looked for a possible baptism for James (jr) in Holcombe around 1846. I've found a record and it could be a match but can I really be certain?
Baptism:
29 July 1849, Emmanuel, Holcombe, Lancs
James Haworth son of James Haworth and Matty,
Abode: Pike Hill Slacks
Occ: Farmer
Register: bishops transcript 1835-1853, page 224, entry 1785.

I was also able to find siblings for the above mentioned James. My doubt is that there is quite an age difference between when he was supposedly born (his age on marriage in 1867 was 22), and when he was baptised. He would have been 2 or perhaps 3 years old.

So my question is... what is the best way to be as certain as possible that my relation was the son of James and Matty. If he was of course, I would then be able to follow census records for them and open up another branch, but I'm not 100% sure.

Any advice from more knowledgeable members would be most welcome.
Ashley