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Born Italy (Spezzia) 1866 .according to cencus ,tried uk to find birth mother but no joy.also contacted Italian embassy and the town hall in Spezzia to see if he was listed on any records there .His father Willian Dowse from Depford Kent.On cencus his mother is Margarette Brown (Callander Scotland).problem is the marriage was 3 years after James was born so trying to find out if she was the mother.Any ideas researches?

Marie, can I just ask if his father was recorded as a widower on the marriage cert?
Jan

Is this the family? Just wondering if William is his older brother, or just Margaret's son?


1881 England Census
Name: William Dowse
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William Dowse
Mother's name: Margaret Dowse
Gender: Male
Where born: Deptford, Kent, England

Civil parish: Deptford St Nicholas
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 6 Orchard Grove

Occupation: Blacksmith

Registration district: Greenwich
Sub-registration district: St Nicholas Deptford

William Dowse 43
Margaret Dowse 52
William Dowse 22
James Dowse 16

Name: James Dowse
Age (Original): 16
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1865
Birthplace: Italy
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Blacksmith
Address: 6 Orchard Grove
Event Place: St Nicholas Deptford, Kent, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341167
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 718 / 31
Page Number: 55
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head William Dowse M 43 Deptford, Kent, England
Wife Margaret Dowse F 52 Scotland
Son William Dowse M 22 Deptford, Kent, England
Son James Dowse M 16 Italy

by the way Merv, as you can see, Breakspear is in my tree - my maternal line originating in Berkshire - my Mum was a Breakspear

This is a strange family.
Dad William Samuel Dowse 1837 son of William Henry and Matilda.

He the becomes William John Dowse?

Then there is this birth Ann lilian Dowse bap 8/6/1856 by William Dowse (Comedian) and Margaret.

Emily lilian Dowse married 20/11/1877 to Thomas Henry George a Widower and he was born in Wales a Tailor died 1901.
Emilys dad William Dowse an engineer
Address 6,Orchard Grove (As on 1881 census for William and Margaret.)

1911
Lillian George widow with brother William Dowse 1859 a widow.

Margaret and William Dowse also had Benjamin Richard Dowse 1860 died 1937 he married Lydia Ryder.His dad William John Dowse engineer .He married in 1883 witness's
William John Dowse and Lilian George
Can't find him on census until after his marriage

1881 Deptford St Nicholas D6a > 17
Thomas George a Tailor
Lilian George 1855 deptford
Alice George neice 1875 deptford
Benjamin George 1 1861 Deptford brother(I think this could be Benjamin Richard Dowse)

1881 William and Margaret Dowse D5 > 56

Maryb.

Hi Merv - can you respond on here please - as I said, you ar more than welcome to view my tree but canlt remember how to facilitate it

tree sorted now Merv - available for you to view it :-D

Jan ,yes this is correct family ,but tried passengers list passport list for around 1850 onwards to see if Margaret Brown was in Italy when James was born there or to find when William went out there but to no avail William married Margaret in Callender Scotland 1869 if serves me correct.
thanks for info Merv

So if that is the correct family in 1881 at 6,Orchard Grove then all the info I put is correct.
looks as though william married before 1869 in Scotland if he had daughter in 1856 ie Emily/Ann lillian Dowse,baptised by William and Margaret Dowse.

Maryb

William and Margrete, sorry wrong year off mariage was 26/12/1868 Callandar in Scotland have ordered marriage cert to confirm if William was a widower on the cert and confirm Williams parents hopefully., am sure this will still not sort who the mother was to James Francies Dowse though born in Italy 1866,there seems to be a gap inbetween the years for passport registrations 1862 till 1870s .thanks to all for help
merv

Merv...I dont have any idea from what has been posted as to Williams occupation but it may have been a possibility that he was out in La Spezia during the time of the building /consruction of La Spezia Harbour....(it was a combined British and Italian operation)..Have you looked at British Consular Births..?

hI ,he was a Blacksmith so possibly a ggod reason to be out there thank you will check British Consular births seems i have tried every where else but there.I have been doing tree since 2000 both mine and the wifes and must admit it can be very trying (worse if tracing 2 trees),So i have spells where leave it for ages then get stuck back in.Not sure if others have same problem but i can get back to about 1750 with my fathers side and mothers side then seem to draw a lot of blanks. Thanks for info regards Merv

looks like no luck there also but once again thanks

Found marriage cert Callander Perth Scotland,28/12/1868
William Thomas Dowse age 23 single (residance Tattenham Middlesex)Commissions agent. Father James Dowse mother Maria Wadsley deceased.
Margaret Brown age 18 so looking like not the parants of James Francies or William,
Margarets father Quintin Brown mother Ann Gourmaly .Possibly Margaret put her age down on cencus as older due to it showing what possibly would show her being to young (will never know)
merv