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Looking for Ruby Maud(e) Carpenter

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Elizabeth Report 1 Apr 2013 01:07

I am looking for any information on my paternal grandmother Ruby Maud(e) Carpenter who died 20th December 1941 aged 39 yrs. I don't have a date of birth for her but think I have found her aged 8 in the 1911 census. Family records suggest she had 2 brothers called Will and Ernest.
The 1911 census includes siblings Reginald, Violet, Percy, Dorothy, William, Ernest and Ellen. They were living in Walthamstow.
In the 1901 census the parents are William James c1868 and Ada c1866. They lived in Bethnal Green with Reginald, Violet and Percy, having previously lived in Islington.There was a visitor called Maude White at the time of the 1901 census.
It appears that Ada died in 1902 and the 'wife' in 1911 is Maude Mary c1877. I wonder if this is the same person as the 1901 visitor??. I think I have found that William married Ada Wark in Holborn 1887. I can't find any marriage record for William and Maude. This makes it unclear as to who Ruby's mother was - Ada or Maude or maybe someone else??.
There is one Ruby Maud(e) Carpenter born c1888 who died in 1894 - she appears in the 1891 census in Islington with parents William and Ada and brother Reginald. There is no other Ruby Maud Carpenter but there is a Ruby Maud White born June 1902 around the time Ada died. I have ordered birth certificates for her and a Rosina Maud Carpenter born around the same time in Lambeth. I have also ordered Ada's death certificate as I initially wondered if she died shortly after giving birth to Ruby but this doesn't seem to add up any more.
Ruby married Charles Henry Poore in 1929 under the name Ruby Maud Carpenter and had one child (my father) Richard Charles in 1931. They lived in the Streatham/ Croydon area. I don't think that my father knew any of his relatives on his mother's side. After dad died we were told that Ruby left him and his father to join the forces possibly about 1937. Dad did have contact with her after this and did visit her when she was in a sanatorium with TB which is what she died from.
I would really like to know who my grandmother really was!
Many thanks
Liz Miller :-S


GlitterBaby Report 1 Apr 2013 01:14

Is there any father named on the 1929 marriage cert ?

Are any witnessess related to her?


PricklyHolly Report 1 Apr 2013 01:27

For info........

Household transcription
1911 census

Person: CARPENTER, Ruby Maude
Address: 43 Salcombe Road Walthamstow

CARPENTER, William James Head Married M 43 1868 Tin Plate Worker Stoke Newington VIEW
CARPENTER, Maude Mary Wife Married8 years F 34 1877 Poplar VIEW
CARPENTER, Reginald Son Single M 21 1890 Clerk Blackfriars VIEW
CARPENTER, Violet May Daughter Single F 17 1894 Solderer Of Tinware Bethnal Green VIEW
CARPENTER, Percy Harold Son M 12 1899 Bethnal Green VIEW
CARPENTER, Ruby Maude Daughter F 8 1903 Leyton Essex VIEW
CARPENTER, Dlorothy Louisa Daughter F 7 1904 Leyton Essex VIEW
CARPENTER, William George Son M 5 1906 Leyton Essex VIEW
CARPENTER, Ernest James Son M 3 1908 Leyton Essex VIEW
CARPENTER, Ellen May Daughter F 1 1910 Leyton Essex VIEW
RG number: RG14
Piece: 9656
Reference: RG14PN9656 RG78PN513B RD188 SD9 ED23 SN63
Registration District: West Ham
Sub District: North Leyton
Enumeration District: 23
Parish: Low Leyton
Address: 43 Salcombe Road Walthamstow
County: Essex
(4 children born and living)


PricklyHolly Report 1 Apr 2013 01:31

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about William James Carpenter
Name: William James Carpenter
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1 Dec 1872
Born: 9 July 1868
Father's Name: James Carpenter (Bricklayer)
Mother's name: Margaret Carpenter
Parish or Poor Law Union: Stoke Newington St Mary
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers


GlitterBaby Report 1 Apr 2013 01:31

? a name missing from this entry

Marriages Mar 1903 (>99%)

Adams Grace Elizabeth W. Ham 4a 92
Carpenter William James W. Ham 4a 92
Sellwood Frederick Charles W. Ham 4a 92


Elizabeth Report 1 Apr 2013 01:33

I have just ordered the marriage certificate so hope it will give her parent's names. But if Maude was her mother and she was not married to William I presume the father would not be named?


PricklyHolly Report 1 Apr 2013 01:37

Here she is.......

Marriages Mar 1903 (>99%)

Diddams Louisa Elizabeth W. Ham 4a 12
Holbrook Ellen W. Ham 4a 12
Larnder George Henry W. Ham 4a 12
Rolph Richard W. Ham 4a 12
WHITE Maude Mary W. Ham 4a 12 <<<<<<<


GlitterBaby Report 1 Apr 2013 01:40

Good spot


Elizabeth Report 1 Apr 2013 01:42

That's interesting. I'd looked at this page but hadn't noticed the missing female! I am just guessing on the Maude White link but if she did marry William after Ruby was born that would explain the change of name.


Elizabeth Report 1 Apr 2013 01:45

Fantastic - thank you! I've been searching and searching!


PricklyHolly Report 1 Apr 2013 01:49

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William James Carpenter
Name: William James Carpenter (Bachelor) Tinplate Layer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Age: 19
Spouse Name: Ada Wark (Spinster)
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Mar 1887
Parish: Clerkenwell St Peter
Borough: Islington
Father Name: James Carpenter (Bricklayer)
Spouse Father Name: James Emma Wark (Gentleman)
Register Type: Parish Register
Witnesses: Joseph Haines Styles and Elizabeth Styles


Elizabeth Report 1 Apr 2013 01:54

I wish I'd asked for help before. This is all really helpful and now I can tell my sister that my 'guesswork' is proving right!


PricklyHolly Report 1 Apr 2013 01:56

Ada died in 1902.........

Deaths Jun 1902 (>99%)
Carpenter Ada 35 W. Ham 4a 158

Ruby was born in 1908

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Ruby Maud T Carpenter
Name: Ruby Maud T Carpenter
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1908
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 178

Odd that William and Maude claim to have only 4 children born and living.


Elizabeth Report 1 Apr 2013 02:07

I suspect that the Ruby I am looking for is Ruby Maude White born June1902. Interesting that William's first wife died around the same time. Either he was having a fling with Maude while his wife was still alive or he is not the father. However Ruby was named after his daughter who had died aged 6.
I was curious about the 4 children too. Reginald, Violet and Percy were Ada's and Dorothy, William, Ernest and Ellen were presumably Maude's. It appears that Ruby was also Maude's but born before William and Maude married.
The other thing I noticed was that they had been married for 8 years. This isn't shown on the census report I have.


PricklyHolly Report 1 Apr 2013 02:15 apologies.

I put 1908 in the search box instead of 1903.

Well this birth would explain why they might only have stated only 4 children......

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Ruby Maude White
Name: Ruby Maude White
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1902
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume: 4a
Page: 408


Elizabeth Report 1 Apr 2013 02:21

I look forward to getting the birth certificate but I have to assume that my grandmother was illegitimate.
Many thanks for your help


PricklyHolly Report 1 Apr 2013 02:22

My pleasure.

I willl check back on here tomorrow.