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CasCas
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7 May 2013 22:59 |
Thanks again alviegal - for some reason I assumed you must be in Oz ha ha!
My pen friend in Australia has the same name as me and it was my idea to see if I could find a link between our familes. She also didnt know if she was related to Samuel Swain but I now know (with your help) that she definately is. Im now going to look at , making us distant cousins.
Beat wishes Cathie Swain :-)
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alviegal
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7 May 2013 14:58 |
That's wonderful news, I think. Hope your friend is happy to be related to such an infamous man. :-D :-D
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CasCas
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7 May 2013 14:30 |
All the info I was sent by you very kind people has now enabled me to definately confirm that my pen friend is related to the infamous convict Samuel Swain 1803 - 1870 (as in the book and utube).
Thankyou all very much indeed
Cathie Swain UK
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alviegal
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7 May 2013 12:13 |
You're welcome Cathie. I wish you luck in your quest. I'm sure you must have this but just in case. They were both listed as innkeepers.
first families 2001 Details First Family Member Details Descendants
First Family Member Details Surname: SWAIN Given Name(s): Samuel
Birth Details Birth Town: Painswick Birth County, Region, Province: Gloucestershire Birth Country: England Birth Date: 27/05/1806
Death Details Death Town: Tamworth Death State/Territory: NSW Death Country: Australia Death Date: 1870
Immigration Details Air/Port Landed: Sydney Ship/Plane: Mary Year Arrived: 1833 Surname: WRIGHT Given Name(s): Patience
Birth Details Birth Town: Painswick Birth County, Region, Province: Gloucestershire Birth Country: England Birth Date: 1/07/1804
Death Details Death Town: Tamworth Death State/Territory: NSW Death Country: Australia Death Date: 1895
Immigration Details Air/Port Landed: Sydney Ship/Plane: John Renwick Year Arrived: 1838
Descendants
Children SWAIN NO ISSUE, Elizabeth SWAIN NO ISSUE, James SWAIN NO ISSUE, Joseph SWAIN NO ISSUE, Francis HASSALL (NEE), Mary Ann 1 SWAIN, George 2 SWAIN, John Samuel 3 SWAIN, Edward 4 SWAIN, Alfred 5
PS It's lovely and sunny here in Aviemore, Scotland as well. Yippee!!
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CasCas
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6 May 2013 20:22 |
Just making my way through the info very kindly supplied and want to thank you all for the help. I see now many people have sent info and I am grateful to you all.
kind regards Cathie Swain
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CasCas
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6 May 2013 15:12 |
Wow thanks for the info especially Cherilyn & alviegal!! This is great now I have lots of info to be going on. I was particulaly trying to find the names of Jacks parents as I was trying to ascertain if he was a descendant of a English convict Samuel Swain 1806 - 1870 (who there has been a book written about) which is what we were lead to believe. I can now use the family info to check that as I have the names of the children of Samue.
Thankyou very very much for all the time you've spent on this its so helpful!!
Regards from a beautiful sunny day in Yorkshire England. (we dont get many of these!! ha ha!!) Cathie Swain :-D
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Cherilyn
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6 May 2013 06:26 |
If you search at the whitepages online phone directory, there is only 1 Swain listed in Mildura, Victoria. See www.whitepages.com.au
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Cherilyn
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6 May 2013 05:26 |
Jack was the youngest son of Francis & Isabella: 1. Leslie W 1891 Tamworth, d. 1893 2. Selby Wilfred 1893 Tamworth, m. Myrtle Gertrude LANGWORTHY 1916, d. 1945 Manilla 3. Arthur Claude 1895 Gunnedah, m. Iris Florence J McKECHNIE 1920, d. 1933 Port Macquarie 4. Irwin Clifford 1896 Gunnedah, m. Sarah E WEST 1922, d. 1971 Tamworth 5. Ellis Victor/Victor Ellis 1898 Gunnedah, m. Clare Frances MORONEY 1930, d. 1933 Randwick 6. Jack 1900 Gunnedah, d. 1947 Tingha
Poor Jack was only 4 when his father died :-(
HIs mum must have been quite something to have raised 5 boys by herself!
Ryerson Index has these, you can request death notice lookups: SWAIN Clare Frances Death notice 10JUL1979 Death [aged] 75, late of Paddington, formerly of Manilla, NSW Sydney Morning Herald 11JUL1979 SWAIN Myrtle Gertrude Death notice 11AUG1968 Death at Tamworth Sydney Morning Herald 12AUG1968
Francis James SWAIN was born in Tamworth in 1868 to George & Harriet nee AVARD (reg 126734), youngest of 7 children. His father George died that same year (and so history was repepating with Francis also losing his dad young).
Isabella Amelia CHAFFEY was also born in Tamworth, in 1865, to Wm Adolphus & Amelia nee CHAD (reg 15422). She was the eldest of 11 children.
The Maitland Mercury & Hunter River General Advertiser, Wednesday 18 August 1852 Marriages. At Wambrommurra, Dr. Jenkins's station, in the vicinity of the Hanging Rock gold fields, on the 2nd instant, by the Rev. Edward Williams, of Tamworth, George Swain, eldest son of Mr. Samuel Swain, to Harriet, eldest daughter of Mr. Thomas Avaid, Fallbrook.
Thomas AVARD (31) and his wife Elizabeth (27) arrived in NSW in 1838 aboard Westminster; Harriet was most likely with them.
Wm A CHAFFEY arrived aged 16 in 1856 with his brothers Robert (19), Samuel (25) & Octavius (23) aboard 'Robert Small'. Also Samuel's wife Elizabeth. From deaths, parents of the CHAFFEY boys were Joseph & Honor.
Amelia CHAD was born in NSW in 1847 to Thomas & Amelia nee MUNSIE (one of 13 chn) and died in 1923 in Newcastle. Her father Thomas was a convict (arr 1831 on Surrey). The MUNSIE family (John & Nickless) are online.
Sorry way more than you probably wanted but I tend to get a bit carried away..! :-P
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Cherilyn
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6 May 2013 05:06 |
The Sydney Morning Herald, Monday 6 June 1938 MRS. I. A. DIMMOCK. The death of Mrs Isabella Amelia Dimmock, aged 73, occurred at her residence at Manilla. She was the wife of Mr Harry Dimmock of Manilla and the eldest of a family of 11 of whom Mr F. A. Chaffey MLA is the youngest. She is survived by Mr Dlmmock and three sons Messrs S. W. Swain of Manilla; Clifford Swain of Loomberah; and Jack Swain of Tingha.
WWI enlistment: SWAIN Jack : Service Number - Depot : Place of Birth - Carroll NSW : Place of Enlistment - Tamworth NSW : Next of Kin - (Mother) DEMMOCK I E WWII enlistment: SWAIN JACK : Service Number - N451073 : Date of birth - 29 Nov 1899 : Place of birth - CARROLL NSW : Place of enlistment - PADDINGTON NSW : Next of Kin - SWAIN VERA
His birth: 3733/1900 SWAIN JACK / FRANCIS J / ISABELLA A / GUNNEDAH
His father's death: 5985/1904 SWAIN FRANCIS J / GEORGE / HARRIETT / MANILLA
His parents' marriage: 7458/1891 SWAIN FRANCES J / CHAFFEY ISABELLA A / TAMWORTH
His mum's 2nd marriage: 12034/1917 DIMMOCK HENRY S / SWAIN ISABELLA A / NUNDLE
her death: 8635/1938 DIMMOCK ISABELLA AMELIA / WILLIAM ADOLPHUS / AMELIA / MANILLA
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Cherilyn
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6 May 2013 05:04 |
Jack died in 1947: 21881/1947 SWAIN JACK / FRANCIS JAMES / ISABELLA AMELIA / TINGHA
His death notice from NLA Trove lists children:
The Sydney Morning Herald, Friday 15 August 1947 SWAIN, Jack.-July 24, 1947 (suddenly), at his home, Tingha, beloved husband of Vera and loved father of Jocelyn (Mrs. C. R. Evans, Wee Waa), Meg (Mrs. G. Radcliffe, Blakehurst), and John and David, Tingha, aged 47 years. At rest.
I think this is daughter Meg: SWAIN PAMELA MARGARET MORROW : Service Number - NF479940 : Date of birth - 27 Oct 1925 : Place of birth - BARRABA NSW : Place of enlistment - PADDINGTON NSW : Next of Kin - SWAIN VERA
Looks like all the kids had the middle gven name Morrow - from marriages: 33668/1942 EVANS CUTHBERT RALPH / SWAIN JOCELYN ANN MORROW / TINGHA 15573/1946 RADCLIFFE GROCE KEY / SWAIN PAMELA MARGARET MORROW / TINGHA 2666/1959 SWAIN JOHN MONOW / OLD VERLEI LAURA / GOULBURN
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Cherilyn
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6 May 2013 05:01 |
NSW death: 1616/1978 SWAIN VERA ELLEN ISABELLA / WILLIAM JOHN / VIOLET CATHERINE
Jack and Vera married in 1923 in Barraba, NSW. That her maiden name was Morrow does seem a good match.
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alviegal
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5 May 2013 23:23 |
Here's a later one. He is a teacher living with Verlei Laura Swain.
Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 about John Morrow Swain Name: John Morrow Swain Electoral Year: 1980 State: New South Wales District: Riverina Subdistrict: Wentworth
Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 about David Morrow Swain Name: David Morrow Swain Electoral Year: 1980 State: New South Wales District: Bennelong Subdistrict: Ryde East
With Irene Veronica.
Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 about David Morrow Swain Name: David Morrow Swain Electoral Year: 1980 State: New South Wales District: Barton Subdistrict: Arncliffe East
Also with Irene Veronica.
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+++DetEcTive+++
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5 May 2013 23:13 |
There is one other person in NSW on the ER with a 2nd name of Morrow
Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980 Enid Morrow Swain Gender: Female - home duties Electoral Year: 1963 State: New South Wales District: Werriwa Subdistrict: Lindfield
of 49 Trafalgar Ave Living with Victor Cyril Swain, manager.
Hope we don't have Swain brothers marrying Morrow sisters!
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+++DetEcTive+++
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5 May 2013 23:06 |
Possibly John is David's brother as there are very few records with Morrow as a 2nd name - but the Australian specialist may be able to give you more suggestions on how to find records. They may even be able to find the newspaper entry to see what details are on there.
I'm in England as well, and have only picked up sources by reading other posts.
John/Jack? Jack/John? Who knows?
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CasCas
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5 May 2013 22:54 |
Just had another thought...... could John Morrow Swain be another son of Jack Swain and Vera Morrow? (ie the brother of David Morrow Swain) ???? Rather than John actually being JACK????
Argh!!!!
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CasCas
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5 May 2013 22:49 |
Wow Thanks Detective.
Over here the name John is often given as Jack so there is a possibility they are the same person. So Im looking for parents of a John or Jack but as the marriage of 'Jack' was 1923 as you say the birth will be early 1900s. Not sure what's available in Australia a here in the UK we can look much earlier.
So near yet so far.
Your help has been Much appreciated :-D
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+++DetEcTive+++
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5 May 2013 22:40 |
So are Jack and John different people, or is John, Jack's Official name?
Just by googling his name, hoping for an obit we can find
PDF Page 11 of the report OFFICE BEARERS 2009/2010 - Coomealla Memorial Sporting Club www.coomeallaclub.com.au/.../Coomealla_Club_Annual_Report_2010.p...? Sep 30, 2010 – Mr Garry John Harding. Mr Daryl William Wescombe. Mrs Janada Joy Blair. Mr Christopher Francis Casey. Mr John Morrow Swain. Mr Norman
John Morrow Swain, Director (he resigned on 5 Dec 2010 as per the next year's report)
NSW birth are only available to 1912 so Jack/John's won't be available
Ryerson index assuming Jack and John are the same http://ryersonindex.net/search.php
SWAIN John Morrow Death notice 11FEB2011 Death 83 at Mildura Private Hospital Sunraysia Daily (Mildura) 12FEB2011 SWAIN John Morrow 11FEB2011 Death 83 Sunraysia Daily (Mildura) 16FEB2011
You could ask the NSW Archive 'Ask a Librarian' service to look up the entry.
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CasCas
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5 May 2013 22:33 |
I have just found a site (by accident I think) that shows a marriage of a Jack SWAIN to a Vera ELLEN ISABELLA MORROW.
This fits with the info supplied earlier by Detective, of a David Morrow SWAIN living with a Vera E I Swain (his mother).
So is there anyway of finding who Jacks parents were by any chance?
Thank you very much for all info received so far peeps
Cathie :-)
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CasCas
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5 May 2013 22:19 |
Thanks for the info everyone!
Detective - yes David Morrow Swain IS the son of Jack. Thanks
I'm trying to ascertain the parents of Jack is possible but will look at the info supplied Thanks ever so much
Cathie Swain (UK)
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+++DetEcTive+++
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5 May 2013 22:17 |
Don't worry - we're getting no where fast. When the Australian experts come on board, they may have better luck
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