Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
patchem
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 07:58 |
Sorry, I removed my posting as Reggie had already posted the 1861 census. But I agree, without Alice showing in 1861 then the most obvious conclusion is that she died. However, I am'annoyed' that I cannot find the family in 1851. (Perhaps water-damaged or missing?)
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 08:13 |
David, being stubborn is no bad thing when doing family research, otherwise it would sometimes be too easy to give up when you hit a brick wall. However, sometimes you do have to step back and be objective, though!
Just to give us a basis to work from, I think this is Lawrence and Elizabeth's marriage (Elizabeth's family name should read Ireland):
Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Name: Lawrence Monk, dealer in pots, of Friday Street Age: 21 Birth Year: abt 1818 Event Type: Marriage Event Date: 28 Oct 1839 Parish: Preston, St John Spouse: Elizabeth Treland - earthenware dealer of Bow Lane Spouse Age: 21 Father: William Monk - earthenware dealer Spouse Father: John Treland - earthenware dealer Reference Number: El3 6/14
Neither previously married.
Witnesses: Thomas Aspendell and Martha Jamieson
ADDED: From the newspapers:
Headline: Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries Publication:Preston Chronicle Publication date:Saturday 02 November 1839
"On Monday last, Mr. Lawrence Monk to Miss Elizabeth Ireland"
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 08:27 |
I hope you don't mind me posting a shorter version of the 1841:
BOYES, William M 25 1816 Lancashire - mugman BOYES, Mary F 25 1816 Lancashire BOYES, Ann F 8 1833 Lancashire BOYES, Mary F 1 1840 Lancashire MONK, Elizabeth F 19 1822 Lancashire MONK, Wm M 0 (4 months) 1841 Lancashire HOULT, Jane F 15 1826 Lancashire BARKER, Elizabeth F 18 1823 Lancashire
Piece: 515 Book/Folio: 5/46 Page: 6 Registration District: Ormskirk Civil Parish: Ormskirk
Address: Scarth Hill, Ormskirk, Lathom County: Lancashire
Living next door is a Thos Aspinall - may have been the one who was a witness to their marriage?
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 08:40 |
Extracted from the long string of baptisms that Reggie posted:
Baptism: 9 Feb 1851 St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk, Lancashire, England Mary Monk - [Child] of Lawrence Monk & Elizabeth Abode: Lathom Occupation: Earthenware Dealer Baptised by: John T Brien, Curate Register: Baptisms 1844 - 1855, Page 316, Entry 2526 Source: LDS Film 1849665
Might be worth buying the birth certificate to see where they were living and then checking for that address on the 1851 census. (They may have been badly mis-transcribed). I can't see Ormskirk as being included on the list of known missing parts of the 1851.
|
|
patchem
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 08:49 |
Do you know if this is Lawrence?
Deaths Mar 1864 MONK Lawrence Ormskirk 8b 644
|
|
Chris Ho :)
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 09:28 |
Burial County Lancashire Place Ormskirk Church St Peter and St Paul Chapel RegisterNumber 2209 BurialDate 28 Jun 1864 Forename Lawrence Relationship Rel1MaleForename Rel1FemaleForename Rel1Surname Surname MONK Age 40 Abode Ormskirk
(should perhaps be JAN?)
Chris :)
http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl
County Lancashire Place Ormskirk Church Parish Church RegisterNumber 55 MarriageDate 11 Dec 1865 GroomForename Richard GroomSurname WILLIAMS GroomAge GroomParish Ormskirk GroomCondition Bachelor GroomOccupation Hawker GroomAbode Ormskirk BrideForename Ann BrideSurname MONK BrideAge 19 BrideParish Ormskirk BrideCondition Spinster BrideOccupation BrideAbode Ormskirk GroomFatherForename Richard GroomFatherSurname WILLIAMS GroomFatherOccupation Earthenware dealer BrideFatherForename Lawrence BrideFatherSurname MONK BrideFatherOccupation Deceased WitnessOneForename Arthur WitnessOneSurname ASHTON WitnessTwoForename James WitnessTwoSurname DIXON
County Lancashire Place Ormskirk Church Parish Church RegisterNumber 131 MarriageDate 10 Aug 1868 GroomForename Robert GroomSurname ASPINWALL GroomAge GroomParish Ormskirk GroomCondition Bachelor GroomOccupation Hawker GroomAbode Ormskirk BrideForename Mary BrideSurname MONK BrideAge 18 BrideParish Ormskirk BrideCondition Spinster BrideOccupation BrideAbode Ormskirk GroomFatherForename John GroomFatherSurname ASPINWALL GroomFatherOccupation Hawker BrideFatherForename Lawrence BrideFatherSurname MONK BrideFatherOccupation Deceased WitnessOneForename Arthur WitnessOneSurname ASHTON WitnessTwoForename Flora WitnessTwoSurname ASHTON
Marriages Sep 1863 (>99%) ----------------------------------------------- Ashton Arthur Ormskirk 8b 1013 MONK Flora Ormskirk 8b 1013
(if relating)
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 11:20 |
From the newspapers:
Headline: LANCASTER INSOLVENT COURT. Publication:Liverpool Mercury Publication date:Tuesday 14 August 1849
Included in the insolvency petitions
Lawrence Monk, hawker and earthenware dealer, formerly of Latham, near Ormskirk
(Hmm, was he in hiding from creditors in 1851?)
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 11:44 |
Headline: DEATH FROM BURNING
Publication:Preston Chronicle Publication date:Saturday 08 March 1856
Article text: "Some six or seven weeks ago the infant daughter of Elizabeth Monk received serious injury from her clothes having caught fire. Medical assistance was procured, and the little sufferer received the greatest care and attention, but gradually sank notwithstanding, and on Monday morning last was found dead in bed by her mother".
There are two deaths for Alice Monk on FreeBMD in 1856:
Deaths Mar 1856 Monk Alice Chorley 8e 2__ Monk Alice Preston * _2_
I've checked the image and they are two entirely separate entries. The Chorley one will be the burial record for the 22 year old that has already been posted.
I strongly suspect that the Preston one is the child referred to in the newspaper article and the subject of the original enquiry.
|
|
Chris Ho :)
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 11:59 |
Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%) --------------------------------------------------- GREENALL Henry Preston 8e 756 MONKS Alice Preston 8e 756
Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries . The Preston Guardian etc (Preston, England), Saturday, May 27, 1871
(on 21st at Parish Church, Preston, Mr Henry Greenall to Miss Alice Monk)
(saw above, not sure if you have this, or if it relates!)
Chris :)
|
|
MarieCeleste
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 12:21 |
I think this 1881 may be the couple referred to in that 1871 marriage:
GREENALL, Ann Head Widow F 65 1816 Preston, Lancashire GREENALL, John Son Single M 45 1836 Cotton Weaver Preston, Lancashire GREENALL, Henry Son Married M 32 1849 Plumber Preston, Lancashire << GREENALL, Alice Wife Married F 32 1849 Cotton Weaver Preston, Lancashire << GREENALL, James Grand Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar Preston, Lancashire GREENALL, John Grand Son Single M 8 1873 Scholar Preston, Lancashire GREENALL, Ann Jane Grand Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar Preston, Lancashire GREENALL, Sarah Grand Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar Preston, Lancashire GREENALL, Ann Grand Daughter Single F 0 1881 Preston, Lancashire
Piece: 4233 Folio: 146 Page: 20 Registration District: Preston Civil Parish: Preston
Address: 42, Barlow Street, Preston County: Lancashire
|
|
Chris Ho :)
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 12:33 |
Marriage: 21 May 1871 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England Henry Greenall - (X), 22, Piecer, Bachelor, Barlow St Alice Monks - (X), 22, Weaver, Spinster, Heysham St Groom's Father: James Greenall, Paviour Bride's Father: Henry Monks, Overlooker Witness: John Thompson, (X); Mary Jane Monks, (X) Married by Banns by: Edmund Lee, Curate Register: Marriages 1870 - 1871, Page 150, Entry 299 Source: LDS Film 93999
Thankyou MC, above rules them out then!.
Chris :)
|
|
david
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 19:30 |
patchem
they are a difficult family
cant find lawrence in 1841 census even though his wife elizabeth and son william are listed
the whole monk family is missing in 1851
|
|
david
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 20:03 |
marie celeste
that is the marriage of lawrence monk to elizabeth ireland
marriage 28 oct 1839 preston st john lawrence monk dealer in pots of friday street age 21 elizabeth ireland earthenware dealer of bow lane age 21 father william monk earthenware dealer spouse father john ireland earthenware dealer witness thomas aspendell martha jameson
the wedding announcement was in the press and later some details of bankruptcy for lawrence in 1849
"living next door to the boyes family and elizabeth monk and baby william in 1841 is thomas aspinall"
there is a DEFINITE connection between monk and aspinall//aspendell/aspinwall families.
lawrence monk parents are william and mary monk
however there are 2 lawrence monk of the same age and location
and to make matters worse BOTH lawrence monk have parents named william and mary monk
however the parents occupations are different an earthenware dealer and a weaver
to add to the confusion there are also 2 mary aspinalls
chorley marriage for lawrence monk
1814 william monk weaver mary atherton
1816 william monk x mary aspinall x
chorley births 1802 mary d of john and sarah aspinall
1803 mary d of issac and alice aspinall
|
|
david
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 20:05 |
marie celeste
it is ages since i bought a certificate
where do i get them from ?
|
|
david
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 20:11 |
patchem
"lawrence monk died 1864 ormskirk"
i think this is my lawrence BUT i have seen a record saying lawrence was 40 at death, there is a discrepancy somewhere
|
|
david
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 20:30 |
chas Ho :)
"lawrence monk burial 28 june 1864"
yes i believe that is my lawremce but as i say above his age is wrong. i dont believe lawrence was born in 1824 it was 1818 or 1820 :) i think
surviving children of lawrence and elizabeth monk
flora married ashton mary married aspenwall then aspinall ann married williams margaret married varey elizabeth married hardman john married bulger
mary monk married robert aspenwall1868 ormskirk robert 30 mary 18
they had a son called lawrence
both robert and lawrence died within the year of the marriage
how intriguing !
next mary married mr aspinall who was also much older
|
|
david
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 20:33 |
marie celeste
"is lawrence hiding from creditors in 1851 "
he could of course be in lancaster prison which was the largest prison for debtors in the country
|
|
david
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 20:35 |
marie celeste
death from burning
OMG poor alice
|
|
david
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 20:37 |
chris Ho:)
im guessing not my alice after seeing above
|
|
Madmeg
|
Report
|
13 Jul 2013 20:50 |
Didn't Janey Canuck have Monks in her family? Is she still around?
Meg
|