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what I know:
Gertrude Abraham b 25/05/1880
Father Joseph Abraham B 1839 - Bedfordshire
Mother Annie Royston B 1843 Grantham Lincs
I have the 1871 /1881 census for them and their children
I know that in 1891 Joseph is no more and Annie is living with a JoSeph Gunson/Glaine from then onwards.
My questions are:
Did Joseph Abraham die or were they divorced?
What about previous Generations? I know Josephs fathers name is Joh but can tfind anything on him and I know that Annies fathers name was William Royston but no more than that
Can anyone help?
Thanks
Kevin :-D

Kevin, please could you post the 1881 census. I cannot find a Gertrude with those parents

Edit: Ok, found it.

Living in Ecclesfiele

Name:Gertrude Abraham
Relationship to Head:Daughter
Father:Joseph Abraham - Horse keeper
Mother:Annie Abraham
Gender:Female
Where born:Ecclesfield, Yorkshire, England

Joseph Abraham 42
Annie Abraham 38
Minnie Abraham 15
Louisa Abraham 8
Claude Abraham 6
Bernard Abraham 4
Gertrude Abraham

.

1891 England Census
about Joseph Abraham Name: Joseph Abraham
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Lughtors Buggard, Bedfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Whitechapel St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration District: Whitechapel
Sub-registration District: Whitechapel Church
ED, institution, or vessel: Charles William Mowl Victoria Home
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 281
Folio: 90
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Abraham 52 <<<<<Bricklayer

This loooks like Joseph in 1891 living with 95 other people in a home of some sort

Thanks Susan- re Joseph Abraham, this is confusing as Annie is recorded after 1891 as 'Gunson' etc and all her children.
I did find a death certificate for a Jospeh Abraham in Attercliffe York in 1884 but I am not sure if it is him.
i could nt find a marriage between Annie and Joseph Gunson I suppose thi smight provide more proof???

do you have their marriage cer?

Name: Annie Royston
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1863
Registration District: Sheffield
Inferred County: Yorkshire West Riding
Volume Number: 9c
Page Number: 334
Records on Page:
Name
Joseph Abraham

Annie Royston

thanks shirley- yes I have their marriage but dont know if Annie married Joseph Gunson or not and what happended to Joseph Abraham
By 1891 Annie and Jospeh G were living in Croydon Surrey
Did Joseph A die? Did Annie assume Jospeh G name?
I do know that in 1871 Jospeh was living with the Abrahams as a lodger so he obviously knew the family

if there's no marriage for Annie to Joseph Gunsen then chances are they didnt marry cos she had just left her hubby and was living with Gunson as man and wife

??

Name: Annie Gunson
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1911
Age at Death: 68
Registration District: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a
Page: 176

1901 census

Name: Gertrude Abraham
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Stepdaughter
Mother's Name: Annie Glawson
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Registration District: Croydon
Sub-registration District: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 58
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 240
Piece: 644
Folio: 48
Page Number: 33
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Glawson 57
Annie Glawson 58
Louisa Abraham 29
Bernard Abraham 24
Gertrude Abraham 21

Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 644; Folio: 48; Page: 33

writing is difficult to read so transcribed as Glawson

what status does she give for her dad on her marriage cert

Name: Gertrude Abraham
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1902
Registration District: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 429
Records on Page:
Name
Gertrude Abraham
Thomas William Murrell
Philip Harry Smith
Mary Agnes Wilkinson

mind you that would be as she knew it !!


edit ditto her brother

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Bernard Abraham
Name: Bernard Abraham
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1904
Registration District: Croydon
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 631
Records on Page:
Name
Bernard Abraham
Sarah Ann Broughton
Gerard Lines
Jessie Amelia Weller

?
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Joseph Gunson
Name: Joseph Gunson
Birth Date: abt 1844
Date of Registration: Mar 1922
Age at Death: 78
Registration District: Islington
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 1b
Page: 407

In 1902 she put deceased fro Joseph A

??


Deaths Jun 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abrahams Joseph 43 Sheffield 9c 322


Parish Records Collection 1538-2005 - Burial

First name(s): Joseph
Last name ABRAHAMS
Date of burial: 30 Apr 1884
Age at death: 43
Calculated year of birth: 1841
Place of burial: Sheffield, Tinsley
Dedication: Park Municipal Cemetery
County: Yorkshire (West Riding)

i agree thi s must be him.
I have the death certificate and it matches with area

Was wondering whether it was the other way round then and it was Joseph Gunson who was already married BUT this looks like him on the 1881 census

1881 census transcription details for: Croyland House, Hertford Road, Edmonton

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 1389
Folio: 86
Page: 14
Reg. District: Edmonton
Sub District: Edmonton
Parish: Edmonton
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Croyland House, Hertford Road, Edmonton
County: Middlesex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SMITH, Daniel Head Married M 55 1826 Coffee House Keeper
Watton, Hertfordshire
SMITH, Lucy Wife Married F 50 1831
Datchworth, Hertfordshire
SMITH, Horace Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar
Waterford, Middlesex
TOWLER, Francis Lodger Single M 25 1856 Blacksmith
N K, Hampshire
SMITH, John Lodger Widower M 54 1827 Farm Labourer
N K, Cambridgeshire
GUNSON, Joseph Lodger Single M 37 1844 Tramcar Driver
N K, Yorkshire >>>>>>>>>>>>>

same occ as the 1891 so def him

1891 census transcription details for: 7, Alma Place, Croydon

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 590
Folio: 78
Page: 28
Reg. District: Croydon
Sub District: Croydon
Parish: Croydon
Enum. District: 30
Ecclesiastical District: St Saviour
City/Municipal Borough: Croydon
Address: 7, Alma Place, Croydon
County: Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
GUNSON, Joseph Head Married M 47 1844 Tram Car Driver>>>>>>>>>
Wrangle, Lincolnshire
GUNSON, Annie Wife Married F 48 1843
Grantham, Lincolnshire
GUNSON, Claud A Son Single M 17 1874 General Labourer
Carbrook, Yorkshire
GUNSON, Bernard A Son M 14 1877 Scholar
Carbrook, Yorkshire
GUNSON, Gertrude Daughter F 10 1881 Scholar
Hillsborough, Yorkshire

so seems they decided not to get married but lived together

1911 census transcription details for: 7 Alma Place Thornton Heath Surrey

Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN3360 RG78PN126 RD39 SD3 ED38 SN28
Reg. District: Croydon
Sub District: West Croydon
Parish: Croydon
Enum. District: 38
Address: 7 Alma Place Thornton Heath Surrey
County: Surrey
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
GUNSON, Joseph Head Married
25 years M 68 1843 Tramway Motor Man Boston Lincolnshire
GUNSON, Annie Wife F 69 1842 Grantham Lincolnshire
ABRAHAM, Louisa Stepdaughter F 38 1873 Sheffield Yorkshire


supposedly married 25 years no children . so would guess they had been together since c1886 not long after her hubby died

yes agree searched the marriage records and nothing so far, looks like it may have been a living together

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

thanks ann, i knew about this strand but I was after some specific information from railway sources if at all possible