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- bit of a puzzle! - can anybody please help?

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date
Marked As Answer Marked as Answered

Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 7 Jan 2014 10:03

Before commenting please read carefully as I have asked for stuff before - but this has thrown up a problem with info I have already!

Stuff I have proof of!

Henry C H Strong was born Kennerleigh,Devon 1836
He went to India (Army 107th regiment of foot) and married Winifred Divine (Father Patrick) in Kussowlie 25/07/1867.
They had a son George 1868 -died 1869 -buried Allahabad
They had a son William HJ Strong 21/12/1870 -Allahabad
They had a son Henry C H Strong 1873 Gwalior or East Indies

Henry married again in Jul 1881 - he is back in Devon England in Crediton. with his son William. (But on census is already living with new wife Elizabeth)

Married Elizabeth Mary Gallant JAS 1881 Exeter
Inferred County: Devon
Volume Number: 5b
Page Number: 167

He married again to Mary Ann Carpenter -widow (nee Crump) in 1892 Devon

(Yes! I know everthing after that about him thanks so please don't waste energy/time looking for me :)) - he was a rascal!

MY PUZZLE!!!!!

I have a death cert for Winifred Divine aged 28 dying of Puerperal fever 7 days after birth of a child. Dated 6/feb/1879 - which ties in with him with new wife in 1881. (The cert names the husband as Henry Strong) although I think they thought he looked too old as had stated to write 'Father' and changed to husband. If the correct one though he was a lot older than her -( he would have been 43 to her 28) It is registered at Porthsea Hampshire. Address of death 51 Gloucester road. Cannot find a birth reg. for the baby either- thought that would help.

Name: Winifred Strong
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1879
Age at Death: 28
Registration District: Portsea Island
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 314




Now I just found baptisms (Actually at the church) in Sandford crediton,Devon of babies called Winifred Strong and Elizabeth Strong . Baptised 17 March 1876. but beside parents names (Winifrede and Henry Strong- Father a soldier) it says dead! it is not clear who 'dead' refers to! Henry was well and truly alive -didn't not die till 1914 - Exeter Devon. (Army Pensioner on cert) and now not sure about Winifred! - cannot see any other likely Henry and Winifred for the death cert I have though. :(

Could they have had newborn deceased twins baptised?
It looks like they were registered born and died the same quarter. Both Crediton JFM 1876

Anyone any ideas please.-I'd be very grateful

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 7 Jan 2014 10:38

Is this the son William in 1881 with grandparents named Alford? How does that name fit in?

1881 England Census
about William Strong Name: William Strong
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871
Relationship to Head: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: India

Civil Parish: Sandford
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address: Hattins

Occupation: Scholar

Registration District: Crediton
Sub-registration District: Cheriton Fitzpaine
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2231
Folio: 83
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
James Alford 54
Elizabeth Alford 67
William Strong 10



MargaretM

MargaretM Report 7 Jan 2014 10:43

What about this son Henry?

1881 England Census
about Henry Strong Name: Henry Strong
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: Henry Strong
Mother: Elizabeth Strong
Gender: Male
Where born: Gwalior, East Indies

Civil Parish: Crediton
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street Address: Blatherstone

Occupation: Scholar

Registration District: Crediton
Sub-registration District: Crediton
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2230
Folio: 15
Page Number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Strong 45
Elizabeth Strong 30
Henry Strong 7



Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 7 Jan 2014 10:51

Margee- Elizabeth was Elizabeth Strong - she remarried to James Alford. She was married to Charles Strong , Henry C H Strong's dad. He died shortly after Henry's birth.

Sorry- missed off Henry Charles Howard Junior! - my mum rang while I was trying to type up! -Yes he's Winfred and Henry's too. He was born 1873 East Indies or Gwalior depending on where you look! I have his marriage cert linking him definitely too.

Gins

Gins Report 7 Jan 2014 11:06

Cannot find a birth reg. for the baby either- thought that would help


Maybe it was a still birth and wouldn't have been registered with the GRO?

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 7 Jan 2014 11:11

I can't see the death of Winifred on FreeBMD.

Edit: Oops! This one?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about Winifred Strong Name: Winifred Strong
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1879
Age at Death: 28
Registration District: Portsea Island
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 314


Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 7 Jan 2014 11:11

Yes :( I thought that - poor woman. If it is her- looks like she lost 4 babies out of 6 .
I think I will have to order the possible twins certs and see if that sheds any more light. Thanks for ur help .

Mel Fairy Godmother

Mel Fairy Godmother Report 7 Jan 2014 11:20

They are twins because they have the same refs.


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Elizabeth Strong
Name: Elizabeth Strong
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876
Registration District: Crediton
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 430

Death

Name: Elizabeth Strong
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876
Age at Death: 0
Registration District: Crediton
Inferred County: Devonshire
Volume: 5b
Page: 318


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Winifred Strong
Name: Winifred Strong
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876
Registration District: Crediton
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 5b
Page: 430

Death

Winifred Strong
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876
Age at Death: 0
Registration District: Crediton
Inferred County: Devonshire
Volume: 5b
Page: 318

I think they only issued births certs if the baby drew breath.

Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 7 Jan 2014 11:24

Thats what I thought for the twins. Must order certs then.

The stillbirth is the one in 1879 -she died of Puerperal fever-7 days after giving birth- but as there is no birth recorded of a 'Strong' baby in the right area etc then guess it was a stillbirth as not recorded. Sad for her - and doesn't help much!

Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 7 Jan 2014 11:26

Yes Margee -thats the death- the only thing that is remotely likely really- and the husband that registered is called Henry - strange he gives his occupation as a Grocer's assistant though. All the rest of the time he was 'Army pensioner' or similar.
I'm half wondering if he was trying to disappear for a while ......

Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 7 Jan 2014 11:28

Or the only other is-my mum just said- maybe the priest visited and baptised too very sick babies and they died while he was there. When he then entered it in the register he simply added (dead) beside the entry.

Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 7 Jan 2014 11:29

Thanks guys- I have to go to work now -but wil pop back later incase a genius has found something else! x

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 7 Jan 2014 12:09

Do the baptisms have a margin note? Baptised Privately often have the notation BP and, as your mum suggests, the Priest has been sent for if they weren't expected to survive.
In all likelihood the 'Dead' does mean that by the time he came to enter the event, they had died but not that he was necessarily present when they did.

Have you been able to find a church burial record for the Winifred and Elizabeth infants.? As they were baptised, they would be named.

You might also try searching for burial records for the child of Winifred around about the same time as her death. The child might have been buried with her, or in someone else's coffin. The entry might just show 'infant' rather than a name if it were still born

Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 7 Jan 2014 13:59

Thanks detective,

No- nothing in margin other than dead.

Surprisingly i couldn't find burials for them in the same parish as the christening - hoping the death cert may help there. In theory it could have been up to 3 months later really that they died- so could have been anywhere. (though unlikely)
Have ordered a birth and death cert for twins - a birth for one and a death for other to cover most things - thought may have different people registering them possibly. may end up ordering lal of them -ouch!

I have tried to find a burial for Winifred the mum,but not managed to find it yet . Have emailed the burials bit in relevant area but they never replied :(. Must look again as more online all the time.

Thanks for your help though x

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 7 Jan 2014 17:06

If DEAD was in the margin, then it would refer to the infant. If it was in the father's occupation column, then yes, it could cause you some confusion.

In any case, the certs you have sent for will sort out things for you ;-)

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 7 Jan 2014 17:53

I wonder whether the birth of the child born just before Winifred died might have been registered a little late due to events.

An Ernest Edward Strong was registered in Alverstoke in the 2nd quarter of 1879. That could also tie in with Henry's military occupation.

Was Henry a bigamist on his 3rd marriage?

In 1891, that Ernest Edward is with widowed mother Mary I (J?) Strong aged 35 born Clapton, in Alverstoke.

Actually, yes?

1881 in Alverstoke

Name: Henry H. Strong
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Mary J. Strong
Where born: Barnet, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Alverstoke
County/Island: Hampshire

Street Address: 2 Cambridge Villas
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Major Royal Marines

Henry H. Strong 41
Mary J. Strong 29
Henry S. Strong 7
Frederic L.H. Strong 6
Mary M. Strong 4
>>> Ernest E. Strong 1
James D. Strong
Emma E. Doughty 20
Rosina E.A. Scorey 19

JoonieCloonie

JoonieCloonie Report 7 Jan 2014 17:58

wait, wait, I have found a doppelganger it seems! :-)

'Henry married again in Jul 1881 - he is back in Devon England in Crediton. with his son William. (But on census is already living with new wife Elizabeth)'

but the ages and names and facts are all so similar :-D

I will leave it there as it rules out that 1879 child's birth it seems.

mgnv

mgnv Report 7 Jan 2014 21:56

Gwalior is just over 300km S of Delhi.
From the 1750s thru 1858, India was pretty much run as a private empire of the East India Trading Company - this was set up to run Asian trade, but the Dutch managed to control Indonesia (nutmeg/cloves), and the Brits settled for India. Running India was taken over in the 1850-1870s by the British government following the 1857 rebellion (sometimes called the Sepoy Revolt).

Familyfinder

Familyfinder Report 11 Jan 2014 13:25

Joonie Cloonie- yes thanks I have everything on henry -but no he wasn't a bigamist -have death certs of first two wives :) The other Henry H Strong isn't him at all.

Its just the twins I was trying to sort.

I now have their Certs -they came in record speed!

Twins died - both of them -premature -Winifred only 6 hours after birth -so looks like it did sadly refer to them. But at least the local priest baptised them.Thanks for help everyone.