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I came to a full stop with my grandmother born Elizabeth Connor, not knowing anything about her parents other than her father's surname and snippets of information left to me by my mother. Amongst mums papers I found a death certificate showing birth 1877 and census records appear to comply with the Elizabeth I have chosen to follow. After much research and comparisons I found her in the Seamen's Orphanage in Liverpool and they have given me written authority to visit the archives in the Maritime Museum where it is possible I will find birth certificates of both herself and father and other documents confirming names etc. I have been on the Maritime website to see what documents they hold for the orphanage and all looks good in terms of what they 'may' be able to produce. However archives of this nature can only be viewed at the premises and as I live at the other end Britain I am trying to establish how I can find out if it is worth spending the money on travel and accommodation costs to look at the records they hold. I am quite willing to go if I know there is something on file for Elizabeth that I don't know already but it will be very costly if I get there and find the records hold nothing for her. On the website, the museum state they cannot make personal research into records and that you must pay a visit to their archives department by appointment. My only misgiving in all of this is that the Orphanage records show their Elizabeth was born in 1876 (not 1877) and it has set doubts in my mind whether my instincts have been right to follow the path. I had wondered if my grandmother came away from the home with no papers and knowing how old she was, guessed her birth year was 1877. Facts left by my mother concur with the possibility of Elizabeth being in an orphanage and I am inclined to believe I have the right girl. Have you come across this before and if so, do you know if there is any way to do this from a distance or if a third party can act on another persons behalf or even if there is a way of finding out from the Maritime just what they have on paper (not necessarily giving details away but the types of certification etc). Many many thanks

Presumably the death cert gave her age at death and you have worked this back to get to 1877, but depending on the exact dates of birth and death this could be a year out.

Did she give a father's name on her marriage cert?

The birth records that the museum hold will be available in other places , so I would try to trace them in other ways before undertaking an expensive journey.

Found her in 1891:


1891 England Census
Elizabeth Connor
Age:14
Estimated birth year:abt 1877
Relation:Inmate

Where born:Liverpool
Civil Parish:West Derby
Ecclesiastical parish:St John the Baptist
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England
Registration district:West Derby
Sub-registration district:West Derby (Rural)
ED, institution, or vessel:
Seamans Orphan Institution

There is this baptism which may or may not be of interest

ame: Elizabeth Connor
Birth Date: 8 Jul 1877
Baptism Date: 26 Sep 1878
Parish: Everton, Christ Church
Father's Name: Daniel Connor occ Rigger
Mother's name: Elizabeth Connor
Reference Number: 283 CST/2/3

Address: 54 Conway Street

forgot to say that when I found Elizabeth with her Aunt Ellen on the 1891 census it also stated that Elizabeth was an apprentice at same age

William Charles Herbert Briggs, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "
Name: William Charles Herbert Briggs
Birth Date: 1872
Birthplace:
Age: 21
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth Connor
Spouse's Birth Date: 1873
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age: 20
Event Date: 19 Feb 1893
Event Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Frederick Briggs
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: John Connor
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status: Single
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00784-6
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1656689
Reference ID: it 3, p 97, no 193
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Elizabeth Connor, "England and Wales Census, 1881"
Name: Elizabeth Connor
Age (Original): 30
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1851
Birthplace: L Pool, Lancashire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Widow
Occupation: Washer Woman
Address: 27 Clifton St
Event Place: Everton, Lancashire, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341876
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3657 / 45
Page Number: 25
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Elizabeth Connor F 30 L Pool, Lancashire, England
Son James Connor M 10 L Pool, Lancashire, England
Daughter Elizabeth Connor F 8 L Pool, Lancashire, England
Son William Hy Connor M 2 L Pool, Lancashire, England
Daughter Mary Ellen Connor F 4 L Pool, Lancashire, England


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1870
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
CONNOR John WATKINS Eliza Bootle, St John South Sefton A28/1/32

info found here

https://familysearch.org/search

Elizabeth Connor in household of John Connor, "England and Wales Census, 1881"
Name: Elizabeth Connor
Age (Original): 5
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1876
Birthplace: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Scholar
Address: 33 Rose Hill
Event Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341869
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3631 / 122
Page Number: 8
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head John Connor M 26 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Wife Elizabeth Connor F 25 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Son John Connor M 3 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Daughter Elizabeth Connor F 5 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Daughter Teresa Connor F 0 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Son William Connor M 7 Liverpool, Lancashire, England

hi klinie

buy this for mothers maiden name

Births Jun 1880 (>99%)
CONNOR Theresa W. Derby 8b 349

More on the marriage safc posted

Name: Adan Connor [John Connor]
Age: Full Age
Marriage Date: 22 Nov 1870
Parish: Bootle, St John
Spouse's Name: Eliza Watkins
Father's Name: Lawrence Connor
Spouse Father's Name: Edwin Watkins
Reference Number: 283 JBT/3/1

Despite the transcription, the name is John Connor. However his occupation is cordwainer, of 10 Molyneaux St, which doesn't tally with mariner. His father is also a cordwainer. Eliza is a weaver, and her father Edwin is deceased, no occupation given. Her address is 112 Balliol rd. The witnesses were William H Crook and Laura Jane Crook.

This marriage of a John Connor, mariner, can be discounted as he was still alive in census 1901 as a ship's stoker:

Name: John Connor - mariner
Birth Year: abt 1855
Age: 21
Marriage Date: 14 May 1876
Parish: Toxteth, St Michael in the Hamlet
Spouse's Name: Annie Hayes
Father's Name: John Connor - labourer
Spouse Father's Name: Peter Hayes - mariner
Reference Number: 283 HAM/3/13

Census 1901:

Name: John Connor
Age: 46
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Annie Connor
Birth Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Occupation steamship stoker

Household Members:
Name Age
John Connor 46
Annie Connor 42
Margaret A Connor 23
Julia Connor 12
Norah Connor 10
Mary Connor 8
John Connor 17
Peter Cowley 20

this could be that marriage


Eliza Connor in household of John Connor, "England and Wales Census, 1871"
Name: Eliza Connor
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Female
Age: 21
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birthplace: Newton Abbot, Devonshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: West Derby
Sub-District: Walton
Parish: Walton On The Hill
County: Lancashire
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head John Connor M 21 Ireland
Wife Eliza Connor F 21 Newton Abbot, Devonshire
Daughter Beatrice Connor F 3 Plymouth, Devonshire
Widow Elizabeth Watkins F 56 Newton Bushell, Devonshire
Son Edwin Watkins M 19 Newton Bushell, Devonshire
Son William Watkins M 18 Plymouth, Devonshire

for johns occupation

John Connor, "England and Wales Census, 1881"
Name: John Connor
Age (Original): 26
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1855
Birthplace: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Labourer
Address: 33 Rose Hill
Event Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1341869
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3631 / 122
Page Number: 8
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head John Connor M 26 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Wife Elizabeth Connor F 25 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Son John Connor M 3 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Daughter Elizabeth Connor F 5 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Daughter Teresa Connor F 0 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Son William Connor M 7 Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Klinie .....


don't forget that birth years on a census can be as much as 1 year out ......... the enumerator wrote down the age of the person, the modern day transcriber has translated that into birth year

But it all depends on the date the census was taken vs the person's birth date as to how correct that is .................


for example someone could have said they were 30 on the day of the census, but their birth date was next day or the day after .............. that could be 1 whole year out.


Also .................... much information given on a death certificate is only what is known to the informant ...........

............ and name as well as age and birth year could well be only what the deceased told the informant ................. even if the informant was a daughter or son.

I am amazed! My head is spinning! Thanks Safc. That is the John and Elizabeth I have kept at the top of the pile during my search as the childrens names match perfectly with my mothers notes. It was the fact that I didn't have his occupation and the birth date of 1876 that prevented me from believing but now the orphanage have also come up with 1876 I can accept that my belief in the July 1877 birth was not the one to follow and the fact that My Lizzie went into the home in 1886 because I don't find this family group on any younger census as a whole. I have noted everything that has been posted for me (written) so I can put all the information together tomorrow along with things I have kept as possibles and add-on relatives. Thank you all so very much

Were the family Catholics? If so, this could be Teresa's baptism:

Liverpool, England, Catholic Baptisms, 1802-1906
Name:Teresa Connor
Birth Date:8 May 1880
Baptism Date:21 May 1880
Parish:St Nicholas, Lancashire, England
Father's Name:Joannis Connor
Mother's name:Elizabetha Foley

marriage for above couple:

Marriages Sep 1875 (>99%)

Connor John Liverpool 8b 389 Scan available - click to view
FOLEY Elizabeth Liverpool 8b 389 Scan available - click to view

Probably not relevant, and may have been too late as no actual year given:

First Name JOHN
Last Name CONNOR
Country BRAZIL
Record set British nationals died overseas 1818-2005
Year 1886-90<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Age At Death -
Year Of Birth -
Page 113
Record Source GRO Consular Death Indices (1849 to 1965)
Year Range 1886-1890<<<<<<<<<<
Volume 8
Place MARANHAM
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Record collection Deaths & burials
Collections from Great Britain

Death registered in Maranharn district.

Thank you Potty and Kucinta for the Baptism record and Brazil death. Years on both bear out and I have kept details of Elizabeth Foley from census research so I must have looked at her before but not had enough to tie her in so I will look for that. I believe the family were Catholics though my gran on marriage had all her children christened CofE