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My Grandfather William Perrin was born in 1875 In Yorkshire. He was illegitmate.He took his mother's surname Perrin, but I don't know when the name was changed. His mother would have nothing to do with his father George Patterson. He had a younger half brother Robert. I have tried to find out about his family with no success. I would appreciate any help I can get.
Many Thanks, Jen.

Hi Jennifer and welcome here :-)

can you tell us his mother's given name for starters?

presumably his birth was registered in his father's name Patterson?

do you know what brother Robert's surname was?
was he the child of a man that William's mother married?

did William marry as Perrin?
can you tell us his wife's name?

some other fact or facts are needed, to go hunting for him in a census to try to find him with family

I assume this is his marriage?

William Perrin
Gender:Male
Marital Status:Single
Birth Date:1876

Marriage Date:8 Feb 1897
Marriage Place:
Shirebrook, Shirebrook, Derbyshire, England
Marriage Age:21
Father: George Pattison <<<<
Spouse: Emily Jones
FHL Film Number:
1752119

They certainly moved around a bit:

William Perrin
Age in 1901:23
Estimated birth year bt 1878
Relation:Head
Spouse's Name:Emily Perrin
Gender:Male
Where born:Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish:Roath
Ecclesiastical parish:Roath St Saviour
Town:Cardiff
County/Island:Glamorgan
Country:Wales
Street address:
View image
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Education:
View image

Employment status:View image
Occupation:View image
Registration district:Cardiff
Sub-registration district:East Cardiff
ED, institution, or vessel:31
Neighbors:
View others on page
Household schedule number:
300
Piece:4976 Folio:153
Page Number:51

Household Members:
Name
Age

William Perrin 23
Emily Perrin 20 (Born Sheffield)
Emily Perrin 3 (Steans Bridge, Herts)
Nellie Perrin 2 (Portland, Dorset)

Nellie Perrin

Age in 1911:
12

Estimated birth year:
abt 1899

Relation to Head:
Daughter

Birth Place:
Portland, Dorset

Civil Parish:Bath

County/Island:Somerset
Country:England
Street address:
18 Great Corn Street, Bath, Somersetshire
Occupation:school

Registration district:Bath
Registration District Number:316
Sub-registration district:Walcot
ED, institution, or vessel:2
Household schedule number:385
Piece:14704

Household Members:
NameAge

Emily Perrin 30
Nellie Perrin 12
Mabel Perrin 9 (Devon Heyham)
William Perrin 7 (Gibraltar)
Hilda Perrin 5 (Letterstone)
Rose Perrin 3 (Newport)
Florence Brown 33
Edward Brown 30
Herbert Brown 1

Emily states married 14 years, 6 children all living. Still says married, but William is absent at time of census

According to an unsourced tree on Ancestry, William was born 11 Jun 1878 in Barnsley, married Emily Jones 2 Aug 1897 (date conflicts with actual records) and died 14 April 1948 in Leicester.

10 children born 1897 to 1924.

No info on parents.

EDIT: I think the marriage date on that tree may have been input in the US format of MM/DD/YYYY so has reversed the day and month.

You refer to a name change..............for whom...............and to what?

Jennifer,

Have you found William on any census before his marriage, and who do you think his Mother is?

Thank-you

Added:
Have you got a year of birth for Robert, and is he Perrin, Patterson, or something else?

As Jen is a relatively new user of the boards I've sent her a message about returning. Of course, there's also the possibility of time differences.

Jen - when you say William took his mother's surname, was that her maiden name or did he take the name of a stepfather if she married a Perrin?

What other info do you have about his mother?

Do you have any idea who the father of Robert was?

Have you got William's actual marriage certificate to see who the witnesses were?

When I read the words "His mother would have nothing to do with his father George Patterson" then I doubt if the birth would have been registered as Patterson/Pattison (unless the falling out came later).

His marriage with a wee bit more detail. He does not appear to have fallen out with his father if the witness is, indeed, the same man.


Derbyshire Marriages Transcription
First Name William
Last Name Perrin
Age 21
Day Of Marriage 8
Month Of Marriage Feb
Abode Shirebrook
Occupation Labourer
Place Shirebrook Holy Trinity
Status Bachelor
Father's Name George Pattison
Father Occupation Labourer
Spouse Name Jones Emily
Witnessess George Pattison/Sarah Cleaver Vaughan
Signed X
ByBanns Or Licence Banns

I don't know William Perrin's mother's name. All my Aunts & Uncles are deceased so I only have my older cousins to ask. No one know's her first name. I & my cousin are fairly certain Perrin was her maiden name.
Robert was George Pattison's son. He lived in Birmingham near to my cousin, who knew him.
William's mother would have nothing to do with George Pattison & refused to marry him. William did keep in contact with him, William had changed his name to Perrin by the time he married. I have seen the marriage certificate but do not have it & was surprised George Pattison's name was on it.
William can only be found on the 1901 census along with his wife Emily & two daughter's Emily & Nellie.
William worked as a Train engineer and helped build the railway in Singapore. He also worked in Malta & the Middle East. Which may be why he isn't on some of the later census'. I can't understand why I can't find him on earlier census' in either surname. Jen

William was born in Barnsley according to 1901 census.

William married in Shirebrook, about 30 miles from Barnsley, and his father, George, was present.

His father's son, Robert, lived in Birmingham - but was born where?

Was Robert his only legitimate son, so George had married before Robert's birth?

If William was illegitimate, his surname is that of his Mother, and so he would not 'change' it to Perrin - it never was Patt*son?

The other witness to the marriage - Sarah Cleaver Vaughan - have you attempted to find her to see if she was related?

Added:
No suitable Perrin or Patt*son births in Barnsley 1875-1880.

Have you got a death for him?

The mother must have had something 'to do' with her son's father...........lol!

The surname Pattison is more prevalent further north than Yorkshire

Do you have any proof that the name Perrin was that of William's mother?

His birth does not appear to have been registered in that name...........

There is no George Pattison living in Yorkshire in 1881

What was his occupation?

father George was a Labourer on William's Marriage to Emily Jones

is any more known of Robert Patterson/ Pattison , is it known when he died so birth could be worked out ??

tried to find Sarah Cleaver Vaughan -- even tried just Sarah Cleaver just as a Christian name and in Death's and marriages nothing relates to Vaughan

Mavis

could this William be of interest ??

1881 Wakefield

Name: Catherine Patterson
Age: 55
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Wakefield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Wakefield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: Albion Yard
Marital Status: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Wakefield
Sub-registration district: Wakefield
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4578
Folio: 89
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Catherine Patterson 55 Born Wakefield
Mary A. Patterson 21 born Wakefield
Thomas Patterson 16 born Wakefield
William Patterson 5 grandson born Wakefield

not found this family 1871 trying to see if they had a George

a William Patterson appears on 1891 born Wakefield father a William -- William's mother is a Frances so not the one above. think he is William Henry Patterson
born Sep Q 1875 Wakefield

took an interest in the William with Catherine

William Patterson June Q 1875 Wakefield 9c 50

Wakefield district is next to Barnsley district

Can any one find them on other Census ??

Mavis

Found this Sarah Cleaver. Don't know if it's correct though. They seem to be in Birmingham for each census.


Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%)
CLEAVER Sarah Birmingham 6d 249
MORGAN Albert Birmingham 6d 249
SCOLTOCK Emma Birmingham 6d 249
VAUGHAN William Birmingham 6d 249



1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Print this page View image
First Name WILLIAM
Last Name VAUGHAN
Relationship HEAD
Condition MARRIED
Gender Male
Age 29
Year Of Birth 1852
Occupation ENGINE FITTER
Birth Town BHM
Birth County WARWICKSHIRE
Birth Place -
House Number 127
House Name -
Street WINSON ST
Town -
Parish BIRMINGHAM
County Warwickshire
Country ENGLAND
Registration District BIRMINGHAM
Archive Reference RG11
Piece Number 3005
Folio 37
Page 26

FREDERICK CLEAVER W BROTHER 18 1863 BHM
Image Transcription
JOSEPH CLEAVER W BROTHER 15 1866 BHM
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MARY CLEAVER W MOTHER 59 1822 BHM
Image Transcription
ALICE VAUGHAN DAUGHTER 6 1875 BHM
Image Transcription
ELIZABETH VAUGHAN DAUGHTER 1 1880 BHM
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ELLEN VAUGHAN DAUGHTER 5 1876 BHM
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FLORENCE VAUGHAN DAUGHTER 8 1873 BHM
Image Transcription
SARAH VAUGHAN WIFE 31 1850 BHM
Image Transcription
WILLIAM VAUGHAN SON 3 1878 BHM