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How do i check that May Ginsberg ,Bessie Ness , Celie Devine, Ida Gossman, Estelle fellman are siblings to David + Barnett Fellman ?

A Brooklyn 1910 census has Samuel +Jeannie FELLMAN aged 42 ,living with Bessie , Celia , Matilda aged 16,Gertrude aged 15 + Lestraube aged 11

I'm sure this is the same family who are in liverpool 1901 listed as Samuel aged 46 ,children May ,Bessie, Sarah ,David ,
2nd wife Jane(Sheina) and their children;Tilly, Gertrude (Golde)+ Esther
+

In 1905 on boats
their names are given as "Samuel ,Sana Sarah ,Tilly, Gertie and Ester ;
David , Bessie + may all seem to have made the crossing individually in 1904 + 1905 to join an elder brother Barnet

GB school records + trade directories + census addresses helped me fill in gaps between 1891 +1901
and gave alternative names for father as Samuel al lazurus and Mendel

His hebrew name was Leizer-mendel
Above children were baptised as Mera. Bassa Sore. David ,Taube +.Khaya in Russia
Gertrude may have been registered at birth as Golde in Prestwich
Ester is alternatively Esther in GB

can any super sleuths confirm if their names change again in USA ? is Sarah now Celie /Celia Devine
who has Tilly /Matilda become ?
+ did gertrude /getrtz become Ida GOSSMAN



were Gertrude + Tilly registered at a school in brooklyn before they became "sales ladies"
was Esther registered as Estelle

do any of their marriages or deaths give fathers name .? I

there are some connections from american census but I haven't viewed originals
Bessie Ness had father Samuel Fellman with her family on 1925 Franklin cenus

Estelle (Esther) Fellman is staying with her aunt May Ginsberg in 1920 in tupperlake

Estelle clifford has neice Edith Devine born NY staying in 1930 Tupper lake NY
jack Clifford comes up as a shop proprietor in 1940

There is a David Fellman aged 55 staying with nephew jack Gossman + his sister Ida he is machinist in a jewellery dept store which fits with his earlier proffesion as watchmaker .

Barnett may also have previously or subsequently had a different first name

1925 - all except Samuel born US

Samuel Fellman
BIRTH DATE: abt 1853
BIRTH PLACE: Russia
AGE: 72
GENDER: Male
RESIDENCE PLACE: Altamont, Franklin
RELATIONSHIP: Father
COLOUR OR RACE: White
NUMBER OF YEARS IN US: 40
ASSEMBLY DISTRICT: 01
LINE NUMBER: 41
PAGE NUMBER: 23
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Eli Ness 39
Bessie Ness 36
Pearl Ness 12
Augusta Ness 09
Jeanette Ness 07
Louis Ness 05
Samuel Fellman

a 1920 census has Eli ness + bess born in russia children in NY

1920 West Harris Street Savannah, Chatham, Georgia

Elis Ness 42 Born Russia.
Bessie Ness 40 Born Russia.
Pearl Ness 6
Augusta Ness 3 years and 5 months.
Jennie Ness 2 years 1 month

1910

Bessie Fellman
AGE IN 1910: 23
BIRTH YEAR: abt 1887
BIRTHPLACE: Russia
HOME IN 1910: Brooklyn Ward 21, Kings, New York
RACE: White
GENDER: Female
IMMIGRATION YEAR: 1905
RELATION TO HEAD OF HOUSE: Daughter
MARITAL STATUS: Single
FATHER'S NAME: Samuel Fellman
FATHER'S BIRTHPLACE: Russia
MOTHER'S NAME: Jennie Fellman
MOTHER'S BIRTHPLACE: Russia
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Samuel Fellman 35
[55]
Jennie Fellman 42
Bessie Fellman 23
Celia Fellman 21
Matilda Fellman 16 b. England
Gertrude Fellman 15 b. England
Lestrbe Fellman 11 b. England

Others born Russis. All have immigration year as 1905. States married 28 years 6 children born 3 living. Can't quite follow that one as the census is showing 5 daughters there...... unless some of them have died but they listed them anyway?

Bessie Fellman
GENDER: Female
MARRIAGE DATE: 26 Jan 1913
MARRIAGE PLACE: Kings, New York, USA
SPOUSE: Ely Ness
CERTIFICATE NUMBER: 961

Bessie Fellman Ness
CEMETERY: Beth Joseph Cemetery
BURIAL OR CREMATION PLACE: Franklin County, New York, USA


Bessie Ness
SSN: 092-05-8800
LAST RESIDENCE:
10023 New York, New York, New York, USA
BORN: 15 Jun 1882
LAST BENEFIT: 10023, New York, New York, New York, United States of America
DIED: Feb 1980
STATE (YEAR) SSN ISSUED: New York (Before 1951)

Maybe?


Charles S Frank
GENDER: Male
MARRIAGE DATE: 4 Jun 1911
MARRIAGE PLACE: Manhattan, New York, USA
SPOUSE: Celia Fellman
CERTIFICATE NUMBER: 13336
Purchase Certificate




1920



NAME: Celia Frank
AGE: 29
BIRTH YEAR: abt 1891
BIRTHPLACE: Russia
HOME IN 1920: Manhattan Assembly District 17, New York, New York
STREET: St Nicholas Ave
RACE: White
GENDER: Female
IMMIGRATION YEAR: 1897
RELATION TO HEAD OF HOUSE: Wife
MARITAL STATUS: Married
SPOUSE'S NAME: Charles Frank
FATHER'S BIRTHPLACE: Russia
MOTHER'S BIRTHPLACE: Russia
NATIVE TONGUE: Yiddish
ABLE TO SPEAK ENGLISH: Yes
OCCUPATION: None
NATURALIZATION STATUS: Naturalized
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Charles Frank 38
Celia Frank 29
Ruth Frank 7
Irving Frank 3
[3 3/12]

that 1910 census contains anomolies but actually the last bit makes sense if The 3 children are the 3 children the couple had together ; matilda Gertrude + lestraube (Esther)
Bessie + Celia(Sarah) 's mother was Geis-Eda (Edith ) who died in 1889

Ah! That makes sense then. So Jennie had 6 children and 3 of them had died.

Celie Devine seems more likely than Celia Frank as
in 1930 her daughter Edith was staying with at park st Tupper lake Franklin NY with aunt Estelle Clifford + family in 1930 census

I only know of 1 child who died that Samuel + jane had together Taube born in Jacoppils 1890 died as an infant in prestwich 1891
maybe she had 2 other children before she married ..Samuel
this could explain the mysterious Barnet now showing up when I'd already accounted for 11 names all of My GGftaher's siblings ;maybe he has a different father

My ggfather is listed in 1920 hospital admissions as being 2nd of 12 siblings ,2 dead
here are the children name varients and dates of birth registrations in jakobpils
with 1st wife Gies -Ada (Edith) ;

1. Rebecca 1870-1960
2.George Jacob /george/ geo j 1871-1924

3 Dvora 1879-died 1880
4 Mera /mary /may 1880 31st dec
5 Bera Betsy Bessie 16th feb 1882
6 Aaron mottel 1883-died 1884
7sora sarah celia 30th may 1885
8 david 6 nov 1886

with 2nd wife sheina /jane /jeannie

9 Taube 1890- died 1891
10 Khaya 17th april 1891 Tilly /Matilda

11 gertrude golde gertz b cheetham Lancs UK 1892
12 Esther / Ester /estelle b cheetham 1897

but maybe Barnet born approx 1872 is number 3 and little half sister Taube was not counted

FROM ROOTS CHAT :I'm pretty sure that you're right about Samuel L Fellman and family. Jane was a common anglicization of the Yiddish name Sheina/Sheyna. If you pronounce the J in a French manner, you can begin to understand why.

Moreover, Gore's 1902 directory of Cheshire lists the dress maker Mrs Seine Fellman at 36 Price Road, Birkenhead.

There are large gaps in the vital records for Jakobstadt; the birth records for the years 1868 to 1876 have not survived.

However, I did stumble across the following marriage record:

30 March 1889 Dvinsk/Dunaburg
Leizer-Mendel Felman, widower of Jakobstadt
and
Sheina, daughter of Ruvin Landman, aged 22

This begs the question, was Sheina the sister of Leizer-Mendel's first wife? "
"

Another piece of jigsaw
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M5QW-LDH
Barnet

I think this is eldest brother
who stayed in russia through 1890's because married with children of his own

emigrated straight to USA in 1903 to prepare way for his siblings then his father

I wonder if he transitted thru liverpool
+EDIT not our Barnet who was at 478 myrtle av from 1903 + in later census

yes they are definitely siblings
2 of Barnet's children Annie + Isreal come up enrolled in schools in Manchester Jews school 1903
living at nightinglae St
father Jacob Feldman transcribed as Barious J Fellman on one original
also ther is an adolf enrolled in 1891 father's name Bari illegibe Fellman
He must have come over with his aunts + uncles because Barnet Jacob Fellman had more children in Russia

also a little Adolf feldman
Ithink I've put it in my keepsafe but dont know how to send to you

Barnets's children's names don't correspond with that USA one .

There are also 2 David Fellman's neither had children one married Sadi froelick in 1920
the other is a machinist in 1940 aged 55 living with nephew jack Gossman+ sister Ida (no other indication that this is our Gertrude ).

regarding Jeanie/sena's 3 dead children possibly the Golde + Taube who died in Prestwich early 1900's were hers
lazurus/samuel's 1st wife also died a few months after she had an unnamed baby who died soon after birth . Could his 11 siblings not have included his 3 half sisters (Tilly,Gertrude + Esther)

death of samuel Fellman age 0 dec 1892 age 1 born 4th quarter of 1891
+ Isreal age 0 1894 can't find corresponding birth
quite likely to be Samuel Lazarus + Sana/jane's other dead children

Can't find any other records Of Barius?Barnet Jacob Fellman's' Children ;
but it's a good indication that Barnet+ wife + children came to GB from Russia the same year as the rest of the family .
How old was Adolf at school enrollment 1891

He was in USA by 1899 but his children could have been with their mothers family in 1903 Annie +isreal would still have thier father's name on school enrollment