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Hi Stephen thanks for my Charles Welfare info I have a missing grt-grt grandparents several people have tried to find them with no luck if you have time couldyou have a look. 1891 census Henry Foreman born Gravesend 1864and Eliza Foreman born Sussex 1869 married 1890 Strood. address given as Northfleet. He was a seaman.Thanks again. Jane.

Hi Steve yesterday you found some info on The Ambrose family for me i was just wondering if it was possible you could find out the maiden name of the wife. William Ambrose born 1843 Harriestham married Susan ? bron 1846 Elham. Their first child was born 1879 so i guess they got married before that. If you can find this it would be super. Thanks again Claire

Colin Do you know how old John and William would be? This is the nearest John I can find, Mannington, rather than Manningtree; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Annie Palmer abt 1869 Great Bentley, Essex, England Wife Lawford Essex Eva Palmer abt 1890 Lawford, Essex, England Daughter Lawford Essex James Palmer abt 1868 Soham, Cambridgeshire, England Head Lawford Essex John Viall abt 1878 Mannington, Essex, England Boarder Lawford Essex William Watts abt 1879 Mannington, Essex, England Boarder Lawford Essex ------------------------------------------- This is the nearest William; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Mary J Barnes abt 1843 Rose Ash, Devon, England Wife East Ham Essex William Barnes abt 1861 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Head East Ham Essex Charles Littlepage abt 1874 Poplar, Middlesex, England Visitor East Ham Essex Edith A Short abt 1877 Skinningrove, Yorkshire, England Stepdaughter East Ham Essex William Vial abt 1873 Lawford, Essex, England Boarder East Ham Essex Cheers Steve

Hi It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job and i was hoping you might be able to help me out also. I know my ggg/grandfather John W Penny was born in greenwich, 26th July 1861. Died 17th December 1945 84 Harrington Street, Cleethorpe. I am just trying to find some more detail further back than him. I wondered if the census might have the name of his parents? brothers and sisters or any other relatives? I know he married Olive Penny ( unsure of maiden name). 13th Sept 1890. I dont know if you can find any information on Olive? maiden name in marriage certs or summin :| So i'll give you her details in case. Born 11th August 1870, died 7th Nov 1949 same place as John. They also had 4 children that i'm aware of Sidney, Lilly, Walter and Florence. I do have a few more details if it might help altho i wasnt sure how much you needed. I've given you all of it on Olive and John though. Any help at all is much appreciated, Many Thanks in advance Helen Bull

Thanks for looking Steve. Kathy

Claire There are two potential marriages in 1870 and 1876. Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Sep 1870 AMBROSE William Sudbury 4a 651 DEBENHAM Susan Sudbury 4a 651 Rudduck Emma Elizabeth Sudbury 4a 651 Sillitoe William Sudbury 4a 651 ------------------------------------------------------- Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Mar 1876 Ambrose William Hollingbourn 2a 794 BALDOCK Susan Elizabeth C Hollingbourn 2a 794 ------------------------------------------------ This must be the family in 1881, after the marriage; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Residence View Image Arthur V. Ambrose abt 1877 Harrietsham, Kent, England Son Upper St, Leeds, Kent, England Frank Ambrose abt 1880 Leeds, Kent, England Son Upper St, Leeds, Kent, England Lillian F. Ambrose abt 1879 Leeds, Kent, England Daughter Upper St, Leeds, Kent, England Philip F. Ambrose abt 1872 Harrietsham, Kent, England Son Upper St, Leeds, Kent, England Susan E. Ambrose abt 1849 Elham Canterbury, Kent, England Wife Upper St, Leeds, Kent, England William Ambrose abt 1840 Harrietsham, Kent, England Head Upper St, Leeds, Kent, England Barbara A. Clayson abt 1831 Elham, Kent, England Mother in Law Upper St, Leeds, Kent, England Barbara Clayson is named as William's mother-in-law, so if either of the marriages above are correct, then Barbara must have remarried after Susan was born as a Baldock. I've looked for Susan in the 1861 and 1871 censuses, but I can't see her. Cheers Steve

Thanks Steve. I think the second marriage records look the best bet as one of the children were born in Hollingbourne. Also the info you gave me before (of course i dont expect you tp remember it) but it didnt give Arthur or Phillip in the family but then it started with the children from 1879 whereas Arthur is born 1877 and Phillip i think it says 1872. It also doesnt show Aubrey like it did in the previous one. Obviously im going to look into it more just thought it was a bit strange thats all. Thanks so much for looking all that up for me its great gives me a whole load more things to look into. :-)

Helen This looks like John Penny in 1871, this is the only John W Penny born in the area at the right time. On the image itself, the place of birth is quite difficult to read, it doesn't say Greenwich but, not knowing London very well, I can't make a guess at it; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image James Cunningham 1855 Holborn, Middlesex, England Servant St Paul Surrey Frank M Penney 1870 Penge, Surrey, England Son St Paul Surrey Harriet Penney 1800 Lambeth, Surrey, England Mother St Paul Surrey Harry S Penney 1869 Finsbury, Middlesex, England Son St Paul Surrey Flora Penny 1864 Bighordon, Middlesex, England Daughter St Paul Surrey John Penny 1831 Appledore, Devon, England Head St Paul Surrey John W Penny 1862 Bighordon, Middlesex, England Son St Paul Surrey Mabel Penny 1867 Finsbury, Middlesex, England Daughter St Paul Surrey Martha S Penny 1834 Bermondsey, Surrey, England Wife St Paul Surrey Matilda M Stevens 1852 Osborne, Hampshire, England Servant St Paul Surrey --------------------------------------------------- Here they are again in 1881; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Residence View Image Anne Friday abt 1863 Dorking, Surrey, England Servant Devon Lodge, Croydon, Surrey, England Chas. D. Penney abt 1874 Upper Norwood, Surrey, England Son Devon Lodge, Croydon, Surrey, England Flora Penney abt 1864 London, Middlesex, England Daughter Devon Lodge, Croydon, Surrey, England Frank M. Penney abt 1871 Upper Norwood, Surrey, England Son Devon Lodge, Croydon, Surrey, England Harry S. Penney abt 1869 London, Middlesex, England Son Devon Lodge, Croydon, Surrey, England John Penney abt 1831 Appledore, Devon, England Head Devon Lodge, Croydon, Surrey, England John W. Penney abt 1862 London, Middlesex, England Son Devon Lodge, Croydon, Surrey, England Mabel Penney abt 1867 London, Middlesex, England Daughter Devon Lodge, Croydon, Surrey, England Martha S. Penney abt 1834 Bermondsey, Surrey, England Wife Devon Lodge, Croydon --------------------------------------------------- Here's the marriage; Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Sep 1890 PENNY John William Caistor 7a 1045 ROBINSON Olive Caistor 7a 1045 ------------------------------------------------------ Here's Olive and the children with Olive's parents in 1901; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Florance M Penny abt 1900 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Clee Lincolnshire Lily A Penny abt 1893 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Clee Lincolnshire Olive Penny abt 1871 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England Wife Clee Lincolnshire Sydney J Penny abt 1897 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England Son Clee Lincolnshire Walter G Penny abt 1895 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England Son Clee Lincolnshire Emma Robinson abt 1847 North Scarle Mother-in-law Clee Lincolnshire George Robinson abt 1847 Birmingham Father-in-law Clee Lincolnshire ------------------------------------------------- I can't see John in 1901, was he perhaps in the forces? Boer War? Here's Olive with her parents in 1871; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image Emma Robinson 1847 Burringham, Lincolnshire, England Wife St Andrew Lincolnshire George Robinson 1847 North Collingham Head St Andrew Lincolnshire Olive Robinson 1870 Grimsby, Lincolnshire, England Daughter St Andrew Lincolnshire Hope this helps. If you'd like the images, let me have your e-mail address. Cheers Steve

Cherylann The only John Wood I can find in 1871 who was born in Bury at around the rigjt time is this one. There's no wife there, but the children don't match; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image Mary J Wilkinson 1839 Bolton, Lancashire, England Niece-in-law Little Bolton Lancashire Emma Wood 1865 Bolton, Lancashire, England Daughter Little Bolton Lancashire Henry W Wood 1852 Blackpool, Lancashire, England Son Little Bolton Lancashire John Wood 1825 Bury, Lancashire, England Head Little Bolton Lancashire Robert Wood 1863 Bolton, Lancashire, England Son Little Bolton Lancashire If you have more information, I can try again. Steve

Hi Steve you did a look up for me lastnight 9pm re:jolliffe's have you got the address's please for the census's Many thanxs Lesley :~)

Lesley in 1861 they were in Bolington Road, Bollington. 1871, Emma was in Gunco Lane, Sutton. 1871, Joseph was 462 Oldham Road, Newton. Cheers Steve

Thanxs so much Steve really appreciate your help Mant thanxs lesley :~)

Can I take you up on your offfer and ask you to looking up the following names if possible: 1861 census James Bottrill 1850, Robert Glenton 1844, Elizabeth Horn 1850 1871 census: Thomas Masters 1864 1881 census John George Terry 1875 and George William Walkley 1875 1901 census William Sydney Mason 1889 and Evelyn Phillips Holmes 1891 I'm hoping to trace these peoples parents if possible. Thanks R

Russell These two look the most likely for James Bottrill; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image George Botterill 1842 Bramley, Yorkshire, England Son Leeds Yorkshire Hannah Botterill 1840 Bramley, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leeds Yorkshire Helen Brown Botterill 1816 Malton, Yorkshire, England Head Leeds Yorkshire Helen Louisa Botterill 1857 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leeds Yorkshire James Botterill 1850 Armley, Yorkshire, England Son Leeds Yorkshire Jane Botterill 1844 Armley, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leeds Yorkshire Mary Elizabeth Botterill 1854 Leeds, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leeds Yorkshire Susannah Botterill 1846 Kirkstall, Yorkshire, England Daughter Leeds Yorkshire -------------------------------------------------- Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Elizbth Botterill 1848 Norton, Yorkshire, England Daughter Norton Yorkshire Ellen Botterill 1859 Norton, Yorkshire, England Daughter Norton Yorkshire Enoch Botterill 1856 Norton, Yorkshire, England Son Norton Yorkshire Frs Botterill 1820 Filey, Yorkshire, England Wife Norton Yorkshire Geo Botterill 1844 Norton, Yorkshire, England Son Norton Yorkshire James Botterill 1820 Malton, Yorkshire, England Head Norton Yorkshire James Botterill 1850 Norton, Yorkshire, England Son Norton Yorkshire Mary Botterill 1853 Norton, Yorkshire, England Daughter Norton Yorkshire Willm Botterill 1845 Norton, Yorkshire, England Son Norton Yorkshire -------------------------------------------------- There is one born in Cornwall in 1849 if that area's more likely. I'll do the others in another message. Is there an area that's more likely for them? Steve

Russell Again, two possibilities for Robert Glenton; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Christiana Glenton 1788 Newsham, Yorkshire, England Head Richmond Yorkshire James Glenton 1847 Richmond, Yorkshire, England Grandson Richmond Yorkshire Joseph Glenton 1850 Richmond, Yorkshire, England Grandson Richmond Yorkshire Mary Glenton 1845 Stockton on Teas, Durham, England Granddaughter Richmond Yorkshire Robert Glenton 1843 Witton le Wear, Durham, England Grandson Richmond Yorkshire -------------------------------------------------- Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Eliza Glenton 1824 Richmond, Yorkshire, England Wife Richmond Yorkshire Elizabeth Glenton 1847 Richmond, Yorkshire, England Daughter Richmond Yorkshire Fanny Glenton 1856 Richmond, Yorkshire, England Daughter Richmond Yorkshire John Glenton 1823 Richmond, Yorkshire, England Head Richmond Yorkshire Michael Glenton 1852 Richmond, Yorkshire, England Son Richmond Yorkshire Robert Glenton 1845 Richmond, Yorkshire, England Son Richmond Yorkshire There are 21 Elizabeth Horn's born in 1850, do you have any way to narrow them down? Steve

Hi AGAIN Steve another lookup please if you dont mind? Hannah Fox b:1869 Salop doddington Died: 14 april 1954 Crewe cheshire She married Albert James Owen b:1862 bridgnorth shropshire. but dont know where or when???? 1st child Florence.A owen b:1898 bromsgrove worcestershire. Any info of parents and/or siblings please thanxs lesley :~)

Thanks for all this info. I don't think I can narrow down Elizabeth Horn at all other than that she was married to James Bottrill at some point anytime after 1868. Thanks R

Steve Many thanks for the info you found on John and William Viall. Apologies for not giving any dates. There was a John Vial(l) born 1847 but I think he died pre 1901. His brother William was born in 1862. John also had a son called John born 1878 which must be the one you found. There was also another William (again son of first John) born c1880! If you do find anymore on this basis I would be very grateful. Many thanks indeed. Colin

Hi Stephen did you have any luck on solving my mystery 1891 census Henry Foreman born 1864 Gravesend and his wife Eliza Foreman norn 1869 sussex married 1890 Strood living Northfleet at the time. Their daughter was born 1891 may Rye Sussex. no one can find any trace of them on 1891 census. Jane

Lesley This is the only Hannah Fox on th 1871 census, born in Shropshire in or around 1869; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image Edwin Fox abt 1862 Stapleton, Shropshire, England Son Condover Shropshire Hannah Fox abt 1869 Condover, Shropshire, England Aunt Condover Shropshire Sarah Fox abt 1840 Stapleton, Shropshire, England Wife Condover Shropshire William Fox abt 1837 Smethcott, Shropshire, England Head Condover Shropshire Unfortunately, the image isn't available, so I can't check the validity of 'Aunt'. Yet worse, this looks like the same family in 1881 and the girl born in 1869 is Harriet; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Residence View Image Clarence W. Fox abt 1872 Condover, Shropshire, England Son Duck Hall, Condover, Shropshire, England Edith Annie Fox abt 1880 Condover, Shropshire, England Daughter Duck Hall, Condover, Shropshire, England Edwin Fox abt 1862 Stapleton, Shropshire, England Son Duck Hall, Condover, Shropshire, England Ellen Fox abt 1877 Condover, Shropshire, England Daughter Duck Hall, Condover, Shropshire, England Harriet Fox abt 1869 Condover, Shropshire, England Daughter Duck Hall, Condover, Shropshire, England Sarah Fox abt 1840 Stapleton, Shropshire, England Wife Duck Hall, Condover, Shropshire, England Sarah Frances Fox abt 1875 Condover, Shropshire, England Daughter Duck Hall, Condover, Shropshire, England William Fox abt 1836 Smethcott, Shropshire, England Head Duck Hall, Condover, Shropshire, England Can't see her at all on the 1891. Here's Albert in 1871; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image Edwin Barratt abt 1829 Glasbury, Breconshire, Wales Lodger St Leonard Shropshire Albert James Owen abt 1862 Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England Son St Leonard Shropshire Sarah Ann Owen abt 1869 Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England Daughter St Leonard Shropshire Susannah Owen abt 1833 Astley Abbotts, Shropshire, England Wife St Leonard Shropshire William Owen abt 1836 Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England Head St Leonard Shropshire Here's albert in 1891, still single. Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship to head-of-house Civil parish County View Image Owen, Albert abt 1862 Bridgnorth, Shropshire / Salop Son St Leonards Shropshire Owen, Sarah Ann abt 1869 Bridgnorth, Shropshire / Salop Daughter St Leonards Shropshire Owen, Susanah abt 1832 Astley Abbotts, Shropshire / Salop Wife St Leonards Shropshire Owen, William abt 1836 Bridgnorth, Shropshire / Salop Head St Leonards Shropshire And together in 1901; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Aurthur Bretlestone abt 1879 Quatford, Shropshire, England Boarder Coppenhall Monks Cheshire Albert Owen abt 1862 Bridgnorth, Shropshire, England Head Coppenhall Monks Cheshire Alice Owen abt 1900 Crewe, Cheshire, England Daughter Coppenhall Monks Cheshire Anner Owen abt 1868 Doddington, Shropshire, England Wife Coppenhall Monks Cheshire Florence Owen abt 1898 Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, England Daughter Coppenhall Monks Cheshire Thomas Popplewell abt 1833 London, Middlesex, England Boarder Coppenhall Monks Cheshire The only marriage I can find with the two of them on the same page is in 1898 in Salford; Marriages Dec 1898 COWELL Mary Louise Salford 8d 257 Fox Hannah Salford 8d 257 Hudson George William Salford 8d 257 OWEN Albert Salford 8d 257