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I have checked our database for W-ton Town Marriages (available to view
online at http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/familyhistory).

The database shows a James Greenwood, aged 28, a bolier maker who married
Henrietta Attwood, aged 26 at St. Peter's. His father is showing as Michael
Greenwood, a farmer.

Yes I know who you are, I do have a pet name for you and even a song!

You know who I am! Simon does. ;) He even has a pet name for me ...

I looked at all the 1832 James Greenwoods in 1841 and didn't see a one to match. I'll be sitting like a vulture waiting.

Hey 'Janey' ( the monck thing makes me wonder your true name lol)

Anyhow, i've just finished a stupid weekend at work and i'll post the data when i get back online tomorrow....

.... need to rehunt it and sober up lol..... (working in a bar makes a drink after work turn lethal!!

Tracey xx

I've emailed the Wolverhampton record office for them to verify Michael or Richard, they are very similar names, so the correct name could be either.

Hopefully they will email me back this week.

That's been one of my theories all along -- that Richard, or now Michael, was a stepfather's given name ... *or* that Greenwood was a stepfather's surname and the birth father's given name might have been Richard ... or Michael.

Both scenarios are highly not uncommon.

Tracey -- can you say where this widowed farmer Greenwood with son James is in 1841? I'm not even sure which county to be looking in!

Simon....

Remembering that his mother would have been a farmers wife of many acres and possibly widowed with small children..... what are her options??

Yes REMARRIAGE..... you maybe looking for a James Greenwood and he maybe on the census a James Smith or Daniels etc.

Without knowing his mothers name you are going to struggle. But i would wager she's taken another man? Maybe another Greenwood? Or a man of the name of Michael and he's got himself confused?

I do think there is a high chance that he's carrying another surname on the census, and only returns to his real name once he has left home and married.

Tracey

Well I have just re-read the cert.

It definately looks more like a R than an M for the first letter.

The 2nd, 3rd and 3th are (ich)

Fifth letter is very small but letter starts botton left and finishes bottom right so I would say an a

Sixth letter very small but looks like a poor (r) not a poor (e).

The seventh letter looks like a (d) but has a long tail bottom right, which makes it look like a capital L.

I would still say Richard not Michael.

Maybe it was wrongly transcribed into the Church Record or vice versa.

What I don't get is why the marriage certificate, which should contain the exact same info as the parish record, says "Richard" if the record says "Michael".

You're sure you're reading "Richard" correctly? ;)

KB

I will contact the record office in Wolverhampton I am sure someone there will look at the original record to check the fathers name.

I guess his father was dead and he might have forgotton what he was called, expecially if his father died when James was young, that is, before 1851.

Still don't understand why there is no obvious James 1832 on the 1851 census though.

Tracey

Thanks for that and apologies again for not recognising your fantastic effort, I just got a little carried away thinking I was close to cracking this one.

Please post the 1841 record you found please.

Hey you !!!

I think Michael has died before the 1841 census...you know how they like to make life easy for us!

Trying to find a death will be almost impossible.... with the lack of burial records currently.

I do think i found them in 1841 with a widow running a farm of sum acres and a 9yr old son called James.

But again a marriage is thin on the ground, (like the records).

I to have many many rellies from Lancashire, but the county is so vast, although they have lots of records transcribed it's a mere drop in the ocean, so patience tells me to wait some more..... afterall i personally have waited 8 years for some records.... and made the 3 1/2 hour drive each way only to have 2 hours at the RO !!!

I think we need to make dying rellies write dwn everything they know about their own life and hold it in a safe incase some loon like me needs the data!!!


Tracey x

There's no Michael Greenwood in the history of Lancashire.

Somebody needs to check that original parish record for James's marriage. Simon. ;)

Ooooh, Tracey, that answers my question!


Dang -- I'm positive I checked FreeREG! Oh, I was probably looking for the earlier events, didn't think to look for the marriage because Simon has the certificate. I did recognize that as a FreeREG formatted thing and was going to wander back over there and look some more ... but I wandered off the US gun politics board instead ...

You got any more data you want to give *me*?? Just to feed my little obsessions with my crazy theories, you know. ;)

Simon,

Nice to know you have credited my hard work???

Yes Michael Greenwood is Transcribed as the father from actual parish records.

The site I (sorry Simon) got this data from was the FreeREG project, sister project to FreeBMD (which we all know and love)

I have given Simon loads of data i have found.....

Tracey

No James Greenwood father Michael 1827-1837 in the IGI.

Well there's a turnup for the books.

You have a copy of the Greenwood-Attwood marriage certificate? And it says Richard Greenwood for father?

Everyghing else in your post is the same as on the marriage certificate?

Where's that record from? You need to look at the original! "Michael" could be a mistranscription of "Richard".

I long ago corrected that exact mistake in a census entry for a Richard Monck whom Ancestry had transcribed as Michael (who, all this time later, I am considering as a suspect in my mystery ...).

KB look at this record gives Michael Greenwood as his father.!

Search Record Details
County Staffordshire
Place Wolverhampton
Church St Peters
RegisterNumber 430442
MarriageDate 25 Nov 1860
GroomForename James
GroomSurname GREENWOOD
GroomAge 28
GroomParish
GroomCondition
GroomOccupation Boiler maker
GroomAbode Bilston St Leonards
BrideForename Henrietta
BrideSurname ATTWOOD
BrideAge 26
BrideParish
BrideCondition
BrideOccupation
BrideAbode Bilston St Leonards
GroomFatherForename Michael
GroomFatherSurname GREENWOOD
GroomFatherOccupation Farmer
BrideFatherForename William
BrideFatherSurname GOODWAY
BrideFatherOccupation Carpenter
WitnessOneForename William
WitnessOneSurname KEEN
WitnessTwoForename Catharine
WitnessTwoSurname GOODWAY
Notes Banns; Recorded by H HOUSMAN
FileNumber 4750


Kindly found on freereg by Tracy. In my excitement to let KB know of new developments after 9 months, I forgot to say it was Tracy found it. Apologies but this breakthrough is amazing. Helpful maybe

Military Records

Record Summary
Scope and content Folios 370-372. James Greenwood, born Yorkshire.
Attestation papers to serve in the Royal Marines at Woolwich 1855 (when aged 19).
Discharged [discharge date not given] as [discharge reason not given].
Joined from West Yorkshire Militia.
Covering dates 1855
Availability Open Document, Open Description, Normal Closure before FOI Act: 30 years
Held by The National Archives, Kew


Record Summary
Scope and content Folios 191-195. James Greenwood, born Lancashire.
Attestation papers to serve in the Royal Marines at Portsmouth 1852 (when aged 23).
Discharged 1865 as Limited Service.
Covering dates 1852-1865
Availability Open Document, Open Description, Normal Closure before FOI Act: 30 years
Held by The National Archives, Kew


From national archives. I don't think they fit my James but rules two more out.

Great Work K

Ruling out is so important.

Everything you do leads us back to James Greenwood in Oldham living with Whiteheads on the 1841.

But who were his mum and dad?

Betty Greenwood?

Richard Greenwood?

Henry Greenwood?

Was he illegitimate?

If this is my gr gr grandfather how did he become a skilled boilermaker in Bilston over 100 miles from Oldham by the 1861 Census.

Where was he in 1851?

Was he in the military?