Find Ancestors

I am trying to find the ancestors of Joseph and Elizabeth Warwick who had sons and a possibly a daughter born in Montreal c 1820- 1835. All the sons returned to England about 1840 -50.
The family were iron founders and so far as I can tell not connected to the garrison

That's a very difficult one. No censuses in Canada at that time.

Have you tried the Drouin Collection at Ancestry? I don't have access, but you might find the births of their children in Quebec, which could help with something. It's even possible that Joseph and Elizabeth married there.

This is the url for the Drouin Collection there:

http://search.ancestry.ca/search/db.aspx?dbid=1091

All I can tell at a glance is that there are 183 records for surname Warwick. ;)

For info, the sons in the 1861 census are

Joseph (Emily) 1821 Canada, St Pancras, Middlesex
Guy (Lucy), 1822 BS Canada, Ashton Under Lyne, Lancashire
Fredk P E Warwick (Caroline Rosser), 1831 Canada, St Pancras, Middlesex
John Warwick (Louisa), 1839, Canada, Twickenham, Middlesex

?

And in 1851 in Leeds there are sisters, born in Canada:

Helena M Warwick 30 - head of household, born Leeds
George E Warwick 26
Catharine A Warwick 23
Emma A Warwick 20
Frederick P E Warwick 15
Elizabeth Fisher 16

The others are all listed as her siblings, all born in Canada.

This suggests that Joseph Warwick and Elizabeth married possibly in Leeds before leaving England?

Helena is a mantua [?] maker (I would have thought mantle maker, but that's not what it says) and Elizabeth Fisher is her apprentice. George shows no occupation, the sisters are mantua makers, and Frederick is an apprentice cabinetmaker.

connection? 1881

David WARWICK M Male Irish 50 Q Farmer Free Will C Baptist
Jane WARWICK M Female Scottish 46 Q Free Will C Baptist
Lucy WARWICK Female Scottish 19 Q Free Will C Baptist
Elisebeth WARWICK Female Scottish 16 Q Free Will C Baptist
Marie WARWICK Female Scottish 11 Q Free Will C Baptist
Meriem WARWICK Female Scottish 9 Q Free Will C Baptist
Clara WARWICK Female Scottish 6 Q Free Will C Baptist


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Census Place Chatham, Argenteuil, Quebec
Family History Library Film 1375860
NA Film Number C-13224
District 96
Sub-district C
Division 2
Page Number 4
Household Number 19

There is one other possibly interesting entry in 1861:

Name: Bridget Warwick
Age: 70
Estimated birth year: abt 1781
Relation: Head
Where born: America in The British Amey, Canada
Civil parish: Chelsea
County/Island: Middlesex



What about this marriage for Joseph and Elizabeth, if Leeds is a possibility?

JOSEPH WARWICK
Spouse: ELIZABETH WARWICK
Marriage: 09 SEP 1815 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Batch No.: M071931


Yes!!

Results for:
Birth/Christening, 1813 - 1823, Yorkshire, England, British Isles
Father: Joseph Warwick
Mother: Elizabeth

1. CHARLES JAMES WARWICK Christening: 01 APR 1818 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
2. RICHARD ARTHUR WARWICK Christening: 27 AUG 1816 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
>>> 3. HELENA MARGARET WARWICK Christening: 05 OCT 1819 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England


Janet??

It looks like your Joseph and Elizabeth were from Leeds, married there, had their first children there, and then went to Canada.

Several of the Canada-born children are living with elder sister Helena Warwick in Leeds in 1851, Helena being one of the children born to Joseph and Elizabeth before they left for Canada.



Ann o'GG -- if Joseph and Elizabeth did have a son David in Quebec after the others shown in the thread here, that's a possibility. There is one David Warwick birthin the Drouin index, and one David Warwick marriage. There is a death of a David Warwick, and two other deaths, David Lwrence Warwick and David William Warwick.
-- edit -- looks like not; see below. Our Warwicks were back in England by 1841, with no David, and unlikely to have left him behind. ;)

There's this one:
Name: Warwick
Event Year: 1831
Event: Naissance (Birth)
Religion: Anglican
Place of Worship or Institution: Montréal (Anglican Christ Church Cathedral,Actes)
Province: Québec (Quebec)

The original reads:
"1831, July 3rd.
Emma Adelaide, daughter of Joseph Warwick of Montreal, founder, and of Elizabeth Warwick, his wife, was born on the eight day of June, one thousand eight hundred and thirty one and baptised on the third day of July following by me Charles J. Fleming, officiating minister.
The sponsors are Joseph Warwick Junior, Ann Bell and Emma Warwick who have hereunto signed their names."

So that's Emma, aged 20 in the 1851 English census, MM. So far so good. ;)

And it's also telling us that Joseph's father was Joseph!

I wonder where Janice is ... and I surely hope this info is not things she already knows and didn't say ...

I suspect Joseph died in Canada and the family returned to England earlier than Janet thought.

1841 census

Name: Elizabeth Warwick
Age: 45
Estimated birth year: abt 1796
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Leeds Town
Hundred: Leeds Borough
County/Island: Yorkshire

Elizabeth Warwick 45
Richard Warwick 20
Helena Warwick 20
Guy Warwick 15
George Warwick 15
Katharine Warwick 13
Emma Warwick 11
Frederc Warwick 6

The children after Helena are all shown as born in Foreign Parts.


I did spot a Guy and a Katherine Ann in the Drouin collection results.

Or:

Deaths Jun 1838
Warwick Joseph Leeds 23 293
Warwick Joseph Leeds 23 295

(The second one is likely an earlier mistranscription.)

- edit - not likely ours - see death MM found, on p.2, which is consistent with my previous speculation that the family returned to England after Joseph's death.


And to think I thought this was hopeless. ;)

Another one:
15 feb. 1829
Katherine Ann, daughter of Joseph Warwick of Montreal, founder, and of Elizabeth Warwick, his wife, was born on the tenth day of September, one thousand eight hundred and twenty eight and was baptised on the fifteenth day of February following by me A.F. Atkinson, asst minister.
The sponsors are Stanley Bagg, Katherine Ann Warwick, by her proxy E. Warwick and Ann Bell who have hereunto signed their names.

MM, just in case you missed some names, I've been editing posts above to keep info together and coherent, if it helps with searching Drouin.

A possibility for Elizabeth Warwick's birth (her year of birth was likely rounded up to 1796 in 1841):

ELISABETH WARWICK
Christening: 27 MAR 1794 Saint Peter, Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Father: JOSEPH WARWICK
Batch No.: K009625

That's the only birth in that batch with father Joseph Warwick.


Joseph's and Elizabeth's fathers could have been first cousins ...


There is an Elizabeth Warwick death in Leeds in 1847.

There are also Elizabeth Warwick marriages in Leeds 1841-1851.

14 May 1826
George Edward, son of Joseph Warwick of Montreal, founder, and of Elizabeth Warwick, his wife was born on the fourth day of February, 1826 and was baptised on the 14th day of May following by me John Bethune?, rector.
The sponsors are Guy Warwick, William Warwick, the child's paternal uncles and Ann Warwick, the child's maternal aunt who have hereunto signed their names.

Edit: I can't be positive that it says maternal or paternal aunt for Ann Warwick. (Darned site won't let me zoom in, it's very difficult to read.)

Oh! Janey, in my previous post I could have sworn it said "child's maternal aunt for Ann Warwick". I decided it had to be paternal aunt because of the name. But now I see that Elizabeth was also a Warwick. I think I'll change it.

John Bethune, fascinating!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bethune_(clergyman)

I suspected as much:

"He was the great great grandfather of Norman Bethune, the Canadian physician and medical innovator."

Quite the nugget of Canadian history. Norman Bethune is a hero in China, of course, although it took longer for him to achieve renown here at home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Bethune

Oops, didn't read the dates carefully; Norman's ancestor was that John's son Angus; it was that John's son John who was doing this baptising:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bethune

"John Bethune (5 January 1791 – 22 August 1872) was a Canadian Anglican clergyman and acting principal of McGill University from 1835 to 1846."

-- although his father was a Scottish Presbyterian clergyperson. ;)


edit - I've PMed Janet.

Now, Janey, the famous John Bethune, the Loyalist was Presbyterian. He started the Presbyterian Church here in Cornwall. he died in 1815. I believe the John Bethune here was his son, the Anglican minister. Still, same family.

That "maternal aunt" helps a lot, MM -- I look somewhat askance at records that have the bride's surname the same as the groom's sometimes. ;)

I've poked around at FreeReg but can't find any relevant births or marriages.


Heh, I was editing my Bethunes as you were chiding me. ;)

I was United Church, myself, so have the same Presbyterian history, but from southern Ontario so no direct local connection with Bethunes, you see.

My connection with Norman is that he was an atheist and communist. The United Church produces lots of us. The "social gospel" in action. ;)

Yeah, just noticed you were editing whilst I was chiding. I edited the earlier post to say I couldn't be positive as to whether it was maternal or paternal aunt. As I said the site won't let me zoom in so it's quite difficult to read.

Here's some scant help for Janet: in the IGI, batch number P009621 is christenings for Saint Peter, Leeds, 1572-1776.

There is one Joseph, 1862, father John.

- much later edit - obviously I must have meant 1762!

Our Joseph and Elizabeth would have had to be born by about 1795. I was looking for a Joseph who could have been the great-grandfather of both of them, with two grandsons named Joseph born to two of his sons (making our Joseph's and Elizabeth's fathers first cousins), but that one's way too young.

That one could be the father of one of our Joseph / Elizabeth, though.

If you look here, there is a vast list of batch numbers for baptisms and marriages in Saint Peter, and gazillions of other parishes in Leeds.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyYorkshire_%28I-L%29.htm#L

Guy Warwick, Montreal, founder died 21 Nov. 1833, buried 25th, age 47.