Genealogy Chat

Certs arrived! and YES we we have the right one yipppeeee doooooo!

Mother Jessie Greenhall no father.
Joans address was 91 Eccles old road Salford
Mother Jessie is a domestic servant of 18 Dalton Street Salford..

Now heres another puzzel.....

Where it says signature description and residence of informant...
C.A.A.Hankins
Occupier of 91 Eccles Old Road,Salford 6.
I wonder who that is???



Joan was born in Aug but birth not reg till 19th October!
Thats 10 weeks???

On the side it says...Adopted Which we sorta knew anyway.

So...recap...

Joan remembers being in a childrens home.
Then being evacuated and ending up with Sidney and gertrude Porter.
Joan gets a visitor ...
A lady called Jessie.
Jessie asks Joan if she wants to come back home with her....Joan says no.
So...
Sidney and Gertrude adopted her...

SORTED! ...or is it? lol

Thanks everyone :-))

EDIT
Been thinking...
Maybe this is why the 'h' was added cos it wasnt Joans Mum that reg the birth.
Joans adament that theres no 'h'

Off to investgate Roy now.

Thankyou Rose I'll keep a note of that Marriage....just in case.

I have ordered the 1933 Q4 birth cert for Joan Greenhall...I couldnt resist! lol

Fingers crossed the Mother is Jessie.

Gerri x

Possible marriage for Jessie:

Marriages Jun 1944

GREENALL Jessie Sadler Manchester 8d 530
SADLER William E Greenall Manchester 8d 530

Rose

I don't think the word adopted is on the short certs, but they do usually list a registration district on them.

See here:

http://www.genometree.com/images/birth-certificate-copy.jpg

Rose

Gerri


that looks promising!



sylvia

Update...

The 2 daughters have been talking to Mum joan again.

Today Joan says the name GREENALL/GREENHALL keeps ringing a bell.
She thinks thats what her name was. She also thinks it was Manchester and Salford areas.

So!

I found this...
Joans birthday is August 1933.
Joan GREENHALL (yes with an 'H') maybe mum Jessie was using her posh voice? lol
1933 Q4
Salford
8d-287
MMN GREENHALL

I looked for a Jessie Greenall birth and came up with
Jessie Greenall
1904 Q4
Salford
8d-184

Then i looked for the younger boy Roy Greenall
Found this..
Roy Greenall
1942 Q2
Manchester
8d-131
MMN Greenall

Joan also said today that Roy must be abt 70 this year.
Joans 78.

I'm going to phone some reg offices tomorrow and ask abt that silly little birth cert of Joans and see what they have to say abt why no place of birth was put on it.
Was she adopted by Sydney and Gertrude Porter? Is this why no info on the birth cert? and can we buy her original cert....

Once thats done we will order those other certs to confirm.

Watch this space....

Gerri x

I have been looking for Geraldine on old posts....found the following...


Geraldine Report as Abuse 12th Feb 2011
If the person was formally adopted the birth cert will be amended and the word 'Adopted' written in the far right column.

Well it doesnt have that so will have to wait and see if the girls get anything after asking at the reg office.

This should be a lesson for everyone...ask ASK ASK! before it's too late and always take a paper and pen to a family funeral LOL

Have fun

Gerri x

Nudge out of interest

There's someone on here (I think she might be called Geraldine but I can't be sure) who would be able to tell you the exact wording on an adoption certificate and how it differs from a birth cert.

I think.....a birth cert has the wording *from register in my keeping* whereas an adoption cert doesn't.......but I can't be certain now. :-((

I wish I'd kept a note of it. :-(((

Mary

This is going to be really difficult then ........... 'cos if she's blocked it out, then she won't be able to confirma anything without it causing more problems.


sylvia

No one knows even Joan if she WAS adopted.

My friend said that years ago something horrible happened to Joan and she put a block on her younger years.

She said today that she THINKS that maybe she was evacuated to sidney and gertrudes and they kept her,

that's a great idea!

so did Sidney and Gertrude officially adopt her then?


or did she just assume their name



I'll delete that marriage information now, she's still alive



sylvia

My friends going to take joans small birth cert to the reg office and ask if they can buy the full one.

yes thats the Marriage Sylvia.

I dont know why she needed the birth cert. Thats what she said today when we grilled her.

Gerri

did she get married in June quarter 1956, in Yorkshire, under the name Porter?



sylvia

do we know where Joan married?

???Fylde??


sylvia

OK

so we now have

Joan was born in 1933

Joan was in a children's home, and then evacuated ...... which means during the War, so some time between 1939 and 1945

That's when she was with Sydney and Gertrude

Sometime during that period Jessie came to visit, with a small boy, and asked if Joan wanted to go home again.


Why did Joan need her birth certificate to get married in 1955?

She would have been 22, and "of full age"


I didn't need my birth certificate when I got married in England in 1967. I'm not aware that it was ever needed, except possibly for a minor who would also have needed parental permission ........... that's why so many of our ancestors lied about age on their marriage certificates.


She MIGHT have needed her birth certificate to get a passport because they were going abroad immediately after the wedding (eg, for the honeymoon).



sylvia

Bad news.....

The birth cert is the small one. No Fathers name.
Joan now thinks she was adopted.
Could this be an adoption cert??I know they look alike.
It doesnt have a place of birth just Country England.
The date and her name. .

Joan applied for this cert so she could marry in 1955.

Theres a JA then a 6 digit number on the left corner.
8 digit number bottom left and 6 digit number top right.
Thats it!

My friend and her sister have been grilling Joan today and they asked her abt Sidney Porter.
Joan thinks Sidney and ....wait for it......Gertrude!!... are who adopted her.



I asked who Jessie is. She said she was visited once by a lady called Jessie and she had a little boy with her called Roy. Roy was younger than Joan.
Jessie asked Joan if she wanted to come back home with them. Joan said no.



Joan remembers being in a childrens home then being evacuated. She THINKS she then went to sidney porter and gertrude.

.




So!!!

what would Joan have had to take with her to apply for this cert?? Proof of identity.
Dont think she had a passport cos she diddnt have a birth cert...
I wonder when id cards were invalid after the war?
I was born in 49 and i still have mine.

Oh my gawd! how frustraiting is this!!!

Sorry about this folks :-(((

The good news is i have my friends Fathers side going back to the 1700s.
They were a normal ag lab Family that stayed put LOL

Gerri x

LancashireAnn

Likewise, I also can't find any births for Dorothy, Joan and Dennis with the same mmn, whether that be Dewar or otherwise. :-((((

Frustrating isn't it!!

I do think the Jessie Porter/Toulmin marriage is probably her though.

Mary

Edit: I do hope Joan can find her birth cert soon, we really need that info. :-))