Genealogy Chat

1851 Person: MOSTYN, Easter Address: Berthddu, Northop Caer-Fallwch
MOSTYN, Richard Head Married M 36 1815 Miner
Northop, Flintshire VIEW
MOSTYN, Sarah Wife F 25 1826 Miner's Wife
Llanfrene, Denbighshire VIEW
MOSTYN, Easter Daughter Unmarried F 0 (13 DAYS) 1851 Miner's Daughter
Northop, Flintshire

Just done some digging into Mostyns in Northop and have a few clues and hints.

1841 Wales Census about Ester Mostyn
Name: Ester Mostyn
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1781
Gender: Female
Where born: Flintshire, Wales
Civil parish: Northop
Hundred: Coleshill
County/Island: Flintshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Holywell
Sub-registration district: Flint
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1407
Book: 13
Folio: 14
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Name
Ester Mostyn 60
Richard Mostyn 25
Charlot Mostyn 20
Thomas Mostyn 15

Hester and Thomas have a number of children. It is possible that Thomas is related to my Beatta


parents: Thomas Mostyn,? Esther
name: Charlotte Mostyn
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 30 Nov 1817
baptism/christening place: NORTHOP CUM FLINT,FLINT,WALES
father's name: Thomas Mostyn
mother's name: Esther
indexing project (batch) number: C06174-1
system origin: Wales-ODM
source film number: 104818


name: Thomas Mostyn
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 10 Oct 1820
baptism/christening place: NORTHOP CUM FLINT,FLINT,WALES
birth date: 22 Sep 1820
father's name: Thomas Mostyn
mother's name: Esther
indexing project (batch) number: C06174-1
system origin: Wales-ODM
source film number: 104818


name: Thomas Mostyn
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 10 Oct 1820
baptism/christening place: NORTHOP CUM FLINT,FLINT,WALES
birth date: 22 Sep 1820
father's name: Thomas Mostyn
mother's name: Esther
indexing project (batch) number: C06174-1
system origin: Wales-ODM
source film number: 104818


parents: Thomas Mostyn,? Hester
name: Richard Mostyn
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 02 Apr 1814
baptism/christening place: NORTHOP CUM FLINT,FLINT,WALES
father's name: Thomas Mostyn
mother's name: Hester
indexing project (batch) number: C06174-1
system origin: Wales-ODM
source film number: 104818

Yes that is the family John. I have her marriage and children.

BERJITA. is a mistranscription of Beatta. I have reported it but FMP did not uphold it.

I have the portraits and lots of documentation about her.

It is Peter's mother Beatta Mostyn that I do not know about.

I thought it worth mentioning with the Liverpool connection.

Hello, been away for a few days so just trying to catch up.

Lady Kira- you have found the correct family as Margaret Mostyn 1854 married william Crystal in Newcastle and Thomas Mostyn Crystal born 1884 was my g-grandfather. all occupations correct.

Interested to see that John may have located Thomas Mostyn C1800 as a brother to John Mostyn c1800 who was a miner - thought to be lead - as Thomas Mostyn who went ot Newcastle was a manager in a lead refining factory (taken from his daughters wedding certificate).

Hopefully soemthing else will turn up

Had a quick look at Beata MOSTYN,

She and John DAVIES seem to have had 5 children at Northop:
James DAVIES - 1820
Prudence DAVIES - 1823
Peter DAVIES - 1825
Charles DAVIES - 1831
William DAVIES 1834

But must also be a George and a Daniel (see below)

C1841 in Northop has:
Beatta DAVIES, 45, widow
George M, 20
Prudence 15
Daniel 11,
Charles M, 9
William M, 7

In C1851, Charles DAVIES is living Prodigal Lane, Kelsterton. Lodging with married sister Prudence DAVIES (now married to Thomas DAVIES, 32, born Denbigh).

Next door is Peter DAVIES, 25, B Northop. All 3 men are ag labs.

I notice in C1861 that Peter DAVIES has a little girl called BERJITA.

And that baptism in Denbs might well explain why the John MOSTYN running pubs in Holywell might have ben out of county in C1841. I think he should be born Caerwys in Flints - but that is very close to Denbs border.

Nice little thread just started under title "Maiden Names". Family based in Glyntaff, Pontypridd in C1911 but seem to be roots all over. Plenty of South Wales interest, and strong links back to Gloucestershire - so we should be able to get stuck in the lister asks our advice. :-D

Got a very distant link to Lloyd George on my tree (through his wife Margaret OWEN). But thought it might be interesting to just put his grandfather and siblings on this thread. They were a big family and I think quite a lot of people are closely related but don't know the connection.

Grandfather was David GEORGE, a farmer of Trecoed (1782-1828). He was the son of William GEORGE (c1747-1839), farmer of Tresinwen. All William GEORGE Tresinwen's children were born at Tresinwen Farm, Llanwnda, Pembrokeshire.

Siblings of grandfather David George (1782-1828) were Ann (Mrs Joseph OWENS, Kile, Llanwnda b 1787), John GEORGE b 1789, Timothy GEORGE, b 1789 and Mary GEORGE b 1795,

All Baptists in Pembrokeshire. Lloyd George's father was a schoolteacher and was teaching in Manchester when David was born. Not the only great Welshman to be born in England, Saunders Lewis (greatest Welsh language playwright of 20th century) was born Birkenhead and the Prince of Wales was born in London :-)

Just looked at some HOWE wills.

Sir G's great grandfather Edward HOWE (1819-1896). Thatcher. d Aberavon, Port Talbot. Left £150 - proven by Catherine MORGAN (wife of John MORGAN).

Sir G's grandfather Edward HOWE (1849-1896). Tinman of Port Talbot. Left £70 - proven by spinster Elizabeth Christiana HOWE.

Sir G's Father Benjamin Edward HOWE (1889-1958). Solicitor. d Port Talbot. Left £12,475 (Exec Richard Edward Geoffrey HOWE, barrister at law).

And I expect Sir G will leave more than 3d eventually.

Does that not give hope to all these youngsters without jobs or many prospects today. Here was a very ordinary family thatching roofs in the Vale till slate was preferred. They then moved to the burgeoning industrial area of Port Talbot and went into the tin works and made a living. And Sir G's dad was pushed on from this very ordinary family to go into teaching and then successfully entered the law.

And I think Sir G has been a remarkably successful and popular man (and I am certainly no Tory). Just very nice to see a Port Talbot boy do so well - without being a film star. :-D

possible
Parish Records Collection baptism
Forenames:John
Surname:Mostyn
Baptism Year:1800
Baptism Month:Oct
Baptism Day:20
Place:Llanychan
County:Denbighshire
Forenames:BenjaminMothers
Forenames:Margaret
Page:20Record source:
Denbigh baptisms - Transcripts Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

possible Marriages Sep 1842
FEE Mary Ann Liverpool 20 199
JONES Sarah Liverpool 20 199
LLOYD Sarah Liverpool 20 199
MOSTYN Thomas Liverpool 20 199
SMITH Charles Liverpool 20 199
WILLAN Thomas Liverpool 20 199


1861 England Census about Thomas Mostyn
Name: Thomas Mostyn
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah A Mostyn
Gender: Male
Where born: Holywell, Flintshire, Wales
Civil parish: Westgate
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
Town: Newcastle upon Tyne
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Sub-registration district: Westgate
Thomas Mostyn 35
Sarah A Mostyn 35
Margaret A Mostyn 6
Thomas Mostyn


1871 Address: George Street, Westgate, Newcastle On Tyne
THOMPSON, Wm Head M 41 1830 Codurham
THOMPSON, Mary Ann Wife F 44 1827 Northumberland
DRYDEN, Wm Boarder M 23 1848 Yorkshire
HOWE, Geo Boarder M 23 1848 Northumberland
STUBBS, Thos Boarder M 25 1846 Cumberland
WALKER, Jno Boarder M 22 1849 Lancashire
CHRISP, Oswald Boarder M 20 1851 Northumberland
MOSTYN, Mgt Ann Servant F 16 1855 Northumberland


Marriages Sep 1875
CRYSTAL William Newcastle T. 10b 267
MOSTYN Margaret Ann Newcastle upon Tyne 10b 267

1881 8, Swan St, Westgate
CHRYSTAL, William Head Married M 32 1849 Printer Compositor
Newcastle, Northumberland
CHRYSTAL, Margaret A Wife Married F 26 1855
Newcastle, Northumberland
CHRYSTAL, Thomasth I Daughter Single F 3 1878
Newcastle, Northumberland
CHRYSTAL, James W Son Single M 2 1879
Newcastle, Northumberland

1891 Address: 26, Parker Street, Byker, Newcastle Upon Tyne
CRYSTAL, William Head Married M 41 1850 Printer Compositor
Newcastle upon Tyne
CRYSTAL, Margaret A Wife Married F 37 1854
Newcastle upon Tyne
CRYSTAL, Elizabeth J Daughter Single F 14 1877 Scholar
Newcastle upon Tyne
CRYSTAL, Mary L Daughter F 9 1882 Scholar
Newcastle upon Tyne
CRYSTAL, Thomas M Son M 7 1884 Scholar
Newcastle upon Tyne
CRYSTAL, Isabella Daughter F 4 1887
Newcastle upon Tyne
CRYSTAL, Margaret A Daughter F 2 1889
Newcastle upon Tyne

1901 Address: 22, Harriet Street, Byker, Newcastle Upon Tyne
CRYSTAL, Margaret Wife Married F 46 1855
CRYSTAL, Thomas M Son Single M 17 1884 Cartman
Newcastle, Northumberland
CRYSTAL, Isabella Daughter Single F 14 1887
Newcastle, Northumberland
CRYSTAL, Margaret Daughter Single F 12 1889
Newcastle, Northumberland
MCDONALD, William Visitor Married M 25 1876
Newcastle, Northumberland
DEES, Catheran A Visitor Married F 23 1878
Newcastle, Northumberland


1911 Address: 4 Wark Street Chester-Le-Street
CRYSTAL, Thomas Mostyn Head Married M 27 1884 Grocer Assistant Northumberland Newcastle
CRYSTAL, Elizabeth Wife Married7 years F 25 1886 Northumberland Newcastle
CRYSTAL, William Midstyn Son M 6 1905 Northumberland Newcastle
CRYSTAL, Norman Son M 4 1907 Northumberland Newcastle
CRYSTAL, Thomas Midstyn Son M 1 1910 Northumberland Newcastle
CRYSTAL, Margaret Ann Mother Married36 years F 57 1854 None Northumberland Newcastle

Occupation is different though

Roy. I did not have the death of Thomas HOWE or his wife Hannah. So many many thanks. I think death of Hannah will probably be the second one you listed but will check it all out this weekend.

Anne and LadyKIra - watched that development in the Pool with great fascination. And I agree about Elizabeth HUGHES (80, Independent) in Holywell in 1841. It does suggest a bit of status for somebody living over a pub (won't be Roebuck, cos that was round corner) in Chester St, Holywell.

Amanda - still not found Glace in Radnorshire. But eliminated Church in Wales baptism in Glascwm. So still chapel baptisms in Glascwm and all sorts of baptism in Clas area of St Harmons parish to eliminate.

What a fascinating few days so far. Hope you have all enjoyed it as much as me :-D

I have tracked her now anne so will post more tonight.

Please confirm your Margaret was born 1854. The only Margaret Mostyn 1854 showing up on FMP is from Talacre Hall.

I am particularly interested as I have Beatta Mostyn born c1795.

I have just 2 records for her as it is frequently mistanscribed.

John Davies
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 09 Jul 1815 Saint Nicholas,?Liverpool,?Lancashire,?England
spouse: Beata Mostyn
groom's name: John Davies
bride's name: Beata Mostyn
marriage date: 09 Jul 1815
marriage place: Saint Nicholas,Liverpool,Lancashire,England
indexing project (batch) number: M00599-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 93839, 93840, 93841

1841 Address: Kelsterton, Northop, Kelsterton
DAVIES, Bealla W F 45 1796 Flintshire
DAVIES, Gorge M 20 1821 Flintshire
DAVIES, Prudence F 15 1826 Flintshire
DAVIES, Danieel M 11 1830 Flintshire
DAVIES, Charles M 9 1832 Flintshire
DAVIES, William M 7 1834 Flintshire

As you can see she is just up the road from Holywell.

I also have Mostyn as a middle name in some of mine. Quite a few of those.

Thank you to John and Ladykira for what you have found.

My Margaret Mostyn (b1854 Newcastle) I don't know for sure, but I do not feel she was a 'Hyacinth Bucket' as when she married my g-g-grandfather William Crystal she was diswoned by her father as it was considered she married beneath her. They apparantly had a very volatile relationship and despite many children separated on many occassions!

The information that Ladykira found on the marriage and which indicates that Elizabeth Hughes aged 80 and independent on the 1841 census was a relation is interesting as to be of independent means in those days meant you came from a certain class.
It certainly is interesting to persue this line so I need to find out about John Mostyn and Elizabeth Hughes' background. I would be extemely grateful if anyone with free access any welsh archives could look at. I have tried via genes and IGI but have always met a dead end.
Your help has been much appreciated
many thanks
Anne

Their are two entries for Thomas's wife Hannah the second gives her abode as Cowbridge


Glamorganshire
Place St Hilary
Church Parish Church
RegisterNumber
BurialDate 30 Mar 1871
Forename Hannah
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname HOWE
Age 77
Abode
Notes
FileNumber 25655


County Glamorganshire
Place St Hilary
Church Parish Church
RegisterNumber
BurialDate 30 Mar 1871
Forename Hannah
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname HOWE
Age 77
Abode Cowbridge
Notes
FileNumber 25590

GRO info to go with the death
Deaths Mar 1871

Howe Hannah 78 Bridgend 11a 337

BRIDGEND REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : Glamorganshire.
Created : 1.7.1837 (originally "Bridgend & Cowbridge").
Abolished : 1.10.1970 (to become Mid Glamorgan registration district).
Sub-districts : Bridgend, Cowbridge, Maesteg, Mid Glamorgan, Ogmore.
GRO volumes : XXVI (1837–51), 11a (1852–1946), 8B (1946–70).
Registers now held by : Bridgend, Rhondda Cynon Taf and Vale of Glamorgan




Roy

Roy :-D
Many thanks. Population of St Hilary - 146 in 1845. So very likely he is Uncle Geoffrey HOWE.

Main surnames in that area are interesting. BASSETTS were big landowners right through C19th and employed quite a lot of the girls on my tree in service as dairy maids, cooks etc. And my mil's twin brother (born 1917 like her but died over 10 years ago - unlike mil who is still rattling along) had the Christian names John Treharne, and his grandma was born a Miss TREHARN. But I don't think our family were very closely connected to the TREHARN family. Though I rather think that this importnat St Hilary family may connect to a recent/current High Sherriff of Glamorgan Sir Treharne TREHARNE (so good they named him twice) :-D

John, Just to really make your day take a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Hilary,_Vale_of_Glamorgan

Roy :-D

Roy, Look forward to seing you at next Mensa meeting.

I reckon that will be the one. Thomas HOWE's widow was running a small woolllen factory in Cowbridge in C1851. If he was 44 in 1835, that would possibly tie in with the St Hilary baptism in 1790 in St Hilary (William and Anne HOWE).

Had no idea where St Hilary was - but it looks as if you could throw the proverbial stone from Cowbridge and hit the village.

So Sir Geoffrrey HOWE's ancestor was JOHN HOWE (thatcher) bt St Hilary 1786 (parents John and Cecily). And my wife's ancestor was possibly Thomas HOWE bt St Hilary 1790 (parents William and Anne)

If Sir Geoffrey is not her Uncle Geoffrey, I will eat my hat - and it is a large top hat as befitting my station in life ;-) I have to say, she couldn't care less, though she does like Sir Geoffrey.

John, Your Thomas Howe father to Charlotte

You have two possible baptisms for him, One is at St Hilary 1790

You also say He appears to be dead by 1851 but cannot find him on the 1841 census

could this be His death/burial?

County Glamorganshire
Place St Hilary
Church Parish Church
RegisterNumber
BurialDate 09 Oct 1835
Forename Thomas
Relationship
Rel1MaleForename
Rel1FemaleForename
Rel1Surname
Surname HOWE
Age 44
Abode
Notes
FileNumber 25655

also just for info here is the 1881 for Sir Geoffrey's grandad Edward as posted on the 1911 above he is listed as Tinman and his dad Is Edward the Thatcher

Name: Edward Howe
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1849
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Edward Howe
Mother's Name: Rachel Howe
Gender: Male
Where born: Taibach, Glamorgan, Wales the 1911 lists him as born Parish of Margam?

Civil parish: Aberavon
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: Richard Street
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Tinman

Registration district: Neath
Sub-registration district: Margam
ED, institution, or vessel: 9a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5335
Folio: 106
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Howe 61 born: St Brides, Glamorgan Occupation: Thatcher
Rachel Howe 58
Edward Howe 32
Sarah Howe 25




Roy

Hi All,

I have sent Jackie a PM to thank her so much for helping me.

Kind regards
Amanda

Lady Kira

That looks right to me. Fits ages of children to a tee. And it looks as if the Elizabeth HUGHES (80, Independent) in C1841 could be the mother of John MOSTYN's wife Elizabeth.

For benefit of those who do not know Holywell, Bagillt is Flint direction from Holywell - but not far from Holywell at all. And intriguingly close to Talacre Hall and THE Mostyn family.