Genealogy Chat

Arrgghhh Just spotted them both in C1841, working as servants at farm in Llanthew (Llanthew Court). Both born out of county of Breconshire - John WEAVER, 25 and Eliza DAVIES, 20. Only other servant born out of county was Eleanor JONES, 45 - slight chance she may have been an aunt of Eliza.

What a tough one - Amanda. At least it is a problem shared. :-S :-)

Amanda

Thanks for confirming marriage. Sorry to doubt, but was not sure why you had picked Llanthew in BRE. One avenue I may try is to find on C1841 was where John WEAVER was living. If it was in that area, he must stick out somewhere like a sore thumb. And his future wife may be in that area too, probably in service but, just possibly, with her parents.

What is your geography like? How does LLanthew lie in relation to either Clas (in St Harmon, Rads) or Glascwm in Rads?

Hi Georgina:-)

Many thanks for query. Thanks for quick reply, Patchem, and answers to those questions should lead us to an answer here.

There is a Mary Jane MORGAN on an Ancestry tree and perhaps she may be the one. Or one you can definitley eliminate.

This one was from a Welsh speaking family (sister Blodwen, first language Welsh etc) from Pyle in Glamorgan (Bridgend area?). So this Mary Jane MORGAN was 6 and living with parents in C1901 at 158 Ynyscynon Road, which I think is Tonypandy area. Main road through Llwynypia by memory. Father Thomas MORGAN (1860-19010, b Pyle, miner and mother Elizabeth JONES (1860-1946), also born Pyle. Md Thomas WILLIAMS in 1912 in Merthyr area (aged 17) and had daughter Irene b 1916 (oops, less that 100 years and she is virtually same age as my mil!!). But will take chance as it may help to identify if right Mary Jane.

Groes-wen was puzzling me, as it seems a bit too far to the south to fit well, but that place may be a red herring if 1914 marriage is wrong one.

If this Mary Jane WILLIAMS (nee MORGAN) is right one, she died 13 Aug 1962 at 3 Blaen Carno in Pantywaun.

On the wedding picture, does it look like November?
Can your husband remember when and where she died (just to cross-check for age at death)?
Is this the marriage you refer to?
Marriages Dec 1914
Morgan Mary J Lewis Pontypridd 11a 1461

Hi
I am researching my husband's family. However, I am having great difficulty with his grandmother. It would appear her name is Mary Jane Morgan. Father's name, Thomas Morgan, a miner. We have a wedding picture taken by a phototgrapher in Pontypridd, Glamorgan so it would seem that they married in that area. The only couple I could find was married Nov 3, 1914. From that her birth date would be 1894. However, I can find nothing more. She was living in Groes Wen Glamorgan at the time of her marriage. I have a feeling she was born in Glamorganshire, but am not absolutely certain. Any help would be much appreciated

Georgina

Hi John,

Yes it's the right Marriage, it took me a long time to find it but his father is John Weaver, a carpenter, it just doesn't say deceased on the marriage cert.
I am sure it's the right Marriage.
All I knew was that Eliza's Maiden name was Davies from the birth cert I have.
John's father died 1839 in Mordiford so I think he went to get work to support the family,
He might have had a few drinks when he fell off his cart but it says fracture!
I can't prove either of them in1841 as he's not at home, but the Weaver side I have done, it's just the place of Birth for Eliza I am having problems with.
Thank you very much for your help..

Kind regards
Amanda

Suzanne - watch for those jets as you lie on beach at Church Bay or Trearddur Bay :-(

Amanda - not really helping you much yet, I fear. Have you found John or Eliza on C1841. Or Eliza's father? How do you know that the 1842 marriage in Llanthew is correct one? Or DAVIS is her maiden name? Doesn't seem a good fit, but you may have records that prove it was right marriage and right Eliza.

I agree about C1871. He has said "married" but I sometimes think they said "married" if they had been once. I feel sure he had been a widower for 8 years at that time, his daughter is his housekeeper and surely would not be if he had married a second time.

One of mine fell off a cart. He would go to pub and get rolling drunk and used to be carried to his cart nearly unconscious. He would tell his horse to giddy up and horse used to take him 2 miles from the pub to his house whilst he slept in the cart. He fell out of cart and went between shafts, was run over by back wheels and was found dead at side of road following morning. Horse got home safe. Hope your John was more sober. :-D

Hi John

Yes I have the Marriage Cert, Witnesses were John Jones and Margaret Williams, no connection as far as I know of on 16.5.1842, Eliza is living at Court Llnanthew, John Weaver, Labourer, just listed as Llanthew by Banns.
Both deaths are correct, sadly John dies from falling off a cart and a Coroner's Inquest so no family registered it.
John being remarried is not something that I have found as yet but have assumed it to be incorrect in 1871, maybe I should check that again!
3 of the children died young, Eliza aged 20 in 1866, Sylvia Sept 1861 registered by Dad, James in Jun 1861 registered by Mum.
Thank you Patchem as well for your info, it is much appreciated.

Kind regards
Amanda

Alternative for Glace may be "CLAS, a township in the parish of St. Harmon, in the hundred of Rhayader, in the county of Radnor, 4 miles N. of Rhayader."

first heard welsh at the age of 5 in sefton park ,lots of shops and chapels ,i believe that old swan had the most welsh speakers in liverpool during the 60s?
funny i should move to wales and marry a welsh man.
its funny but even now the welsh still treat the english as foreigners,taking over there country and causing the language to die out,but a lot of them dont understand that there was more welsh in liverpool than scousers at one time. :-D

An alternative suggestion for Glace is :- CLAS, a township in the parish of St. Harmon, in the hundred of Rhayader, in the county of Radnor, 4 miles N. of Rhayader."

Silvia (dau of Eliza) born Mar 1851 is unusual and must be in families of either Thomas WEAVER of Eliza DAVIS in previous generation(s), I would have thought.

Suzanne - did you know that Liverpool was the biggest Welsh speaking place in the world 150 years ago. Big church was St Davids (now Adelphi) and loads of Welsh chapels. Have noticed that many from Merseyside who learn Welsh pick it up remarkably quickly and sound like real gogs in no time at all - perhaps in the genes?

Perhaps we should expand thread from Wales to include diaspora (particularly Merseyside born Welsh).

was sitting on the beach at church bay on fri.
live near holyhead in a place called valley,im a scouser,but came here age 10.
will help as much as i can when im not working. :-D

Sorry Patchem Missed that you had also guessed Glace to be Glascwm. Quite a lot of choice, and strange that we both went for Glascwm. What a remote area of Wales that is!

Suzanne Anglesey - lovely place to live. Traeth Bychan barbecues, Church Bay.... (nostalgia for far off times). Think you might have volunteered yourself for a lot of work cos so many went from "Mam Cymru" to Liverpool and beyond :-D

Patchem - C1851 is a good base. Have got James b June 1843 Q , John Sept 48Q and Sylvia Mar 51Q. One further child Mary Ann Mar 55Q. All Hereford RD

Glace is not somewhere I know. There is a parish called Glascwm 7m s-w of New Radnor. THat could be "Glace", I suppose. It has a township called Vaynor-Glare, which mayt be Glare for short. But it does look like Glace, and I would have expected it to be much nearer English border - somewhere close to Hereford.

C1861 in Mordiford has her as 40, b Radnorshire (no help)
And C1871 has her husband John WEAVER, 56, in Mordiford with son John, 22 and Mary Ann, 16. No Eliza, no wife, but John is married!!

Guess is that Eliza is death in June 63Q Her (6a 328) and John is Sept 75 Q Her aged 62 (6a 324). Both probably buried in Mordiford.

Amanda - thanks for giving us a lovely problem:-) Couldn't find a marriage but had not looked at Breconshire. Sounds like you have marriage cert for Llanthew Church. Would it be possible to tell us full details of that - including witnesses, addresses, occupations, by License/Banns. In fact, anything that might provide the tiniest clue.

Just putting the 1851 for reference:
1851 England Census
Eliza Weaver Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: John Weaver
Gender: F (Female) Where born: Glace, Radnorshire, Wales
Civil parish: Mordiford County/Island: Herefordshire Country: England Registration district: Hereford Sub-registration district: Dewchurch
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b household schedule number: 7 Piece: 1977 Folio: 226 Page Number: 2
John Weaver 37
Eliza Weaver 20
James Weaver 8
Eliza Weaver 5
John Weaver 2
Silva Weaver 4 Mo
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1977; Folio: 226; Page: 2; GSU roll: 87378

Glascwm?.

hi again john

forgot to say that i live in anglesey n wales,so only can do research here at local archives, im not welsh,but hubby and children are,i get along fine with welsh place names and have some understanding of the language.
happy to help anyone who needs help for north wales.x :-D
dont come on the site much now,put happy to receive pm requesting help. :-D

Hi John,

What a lovely idea.

This is my brickwall, Eliza says she is born in Mordiford, Herefordshire in 1861 but that where she is living, she has died by 1871.

I know her maiden name is Davis and her father is Thomas but I have never been able to find her in 1841 for certain as the place recorded on the 1851 is as follows:

WEAVER, Eliza, Wife, Married, F. age 28, b1823 Domestic Duties

Born
Glace, Radnorshire

She married in 1842 Parish Church, Llanthew, Brecon, Wales but I have no idea what or where Glace is despite many hours of searching for her in 1841 and I am fairly sure it wasn't Mordiford where she was born.

I do know it's a tough one to solve.
I'm with Rose on your Edmund posting.

Kind regards
Amanda

Rose, I am pretty sure (nay, 100% confident) I don't have marriage cert. I know it was about 1882 in north east.

Think, unless I am very lucky, I am going to have to go thru pennies drawer and buy that. Edmund Mack enters my family for very strange reasons (which I may tell you about ;-)

John :-D

Karen

C1891 in Dumfries St lists:

David DAVIES, 72, collier
Ann, 64
David GRIFFITHS, g son, 11, b Treorchy

In C1901 David is a widower, 81, living with Sarah Ann POTTER, his daughter in Dumfriest St. (see your first post)

Cheers John :-)