Genealogy Chat

thankyou..will do. Will look for email address for Cheshire records office. :-)

try emailing Lancs again this time specifying the look up you want is for St Michaels Burtonwood Peter Whitfield to Ellen c 1810

Lancs do not have the records for Great Sankey that you need. Where a place was once Lancs but is now Cheshire, the main records are held at Cheshire. What is on lan-opc is all that is held at Lancs. According to the Cheshire Archives site they have the records for those missing years. Again you must specify the church

Great Sankey is on the Lancs OPC site,.. the marriages go from 1730--1938, APART from the bit I need..there none with surname index for 1752--1842 !

If its not on the surname index,does that mean they don't have the records for that period,or just that they haven't sorted them into Surnames yet?

L.A....got this reply this morning...

*Lancashire Online Parish Clerk is a fantastic resource, but actually transcribing registers is a long process so it will be a long time before it is comprehensive.

We hold records for hundreds of churches throughout Lancashire, the vast majority of which are not name indexed, so a search of this kind would literally mean checking through the registers of every possible church. We do not have the staff resources to conduct such research on your behalf. Information for planning a visit, as well as a list of record agents able to undertake research, can be found via our website at www.archives.lancashire.gov.uk, where you can also find a list of the church registers that we hold.*

so I would like to take up your very kind offer,whenever you go to the office,but if you have too much of your own to do,I will understand.

You could also send an enquiry to Cheshire records office specifying the church as St Mary's Great Sankey which is where Ellen was born according to census records

they will need the church - St Michaels Burtonwood is the only one you need, Warrington are all online

They have literally records for hundreds of churches in their archives and could not possible check anything without the church info.

St Michaels Burtonwood sould be easy to check as they have printed marriage records for the years you need, most others are on microfilm or fiche.

Sorry,I didn't think to....the marriage in St Elphin.,Warrington,was the only one for a Peter Whitfield to an Ellen(or Helen) in 1809.

Should I send another email,or wait till I get their reply? Will find out if they will do the lookup then too.

did you specify the church as well?

L.A....have sent an email to the link you gave me for Lancashire records. I asked would it be possible for them to do a lookup for me for a Peter Whitfield to an Ellen in c1809.
Got an automated reply saying my query would be answered within 2 working days.
If they say there is a charge,I will certainly make use of your offer to look for me.
Thnx again.
Elaine

right..thnx...i wouldnt have thought people would have had enough money to leave a will!

another possibility is trying to find a will for Peter who seems to have died in 1846. As this is before the national probate index was introduced in 1858 again you would need a look up at the Lancs Archives. It is possible to search their catalogue (Lancat) on their site but at the moment there seems to be a problem with the search facility.

an alternative source is Cheshire Records office. As Ellen was born in Sankey, they may have married at Great Sankey St Mary's, again not online. Lancs do not hold the marriage registers for the years you need (they only have from 1812) but Cheshire Archives have all the records so you could also contact them.

As there are several Peter Whitfields (you only have to look at the burials at Burtonwood to see a few) it would probably be better to wait until you can confirm the marriage before you try to go back further as if the 1809 marriage you are working on turns out to be the wrong one you will have wasted your time.

You are best asking the Lancs archives for a look up at Burtonwood St Michaels for a Peter Whitfield to an Ellen c 1810.They have a printed register for this church so it should be easy for them. You could try ringing them or just submit the enquiry form from the link I gave you and see if they will answer for free.

thankyou very much....i appreciate that.

what enquiry would i ask for? Just any marriages for a Peter Whitfield to an Ellen?

I might be going down the wrong road altogether(wouldnt be the first time!),but the following is what I found....please feel free to correct me...you have a lot more experience than me.

As the marriage was 1809,I looked for baptisms between 1769 & 1789(making Peter aged 20--40 in 1809)....there was only 1 on Lancs opc..that was Peter Whitfield.,bapt 25th Nov.1781(making him 28 at date of marriage)He was bapt St.Wilfred.Farnworth.,nr Prescot.,the son of Peter and Margaret(Ditton)

Then I looked for a marriage for a Peter and Margaret...there were 2..the first was for a Peter and Margaret from Widness

The more likely one was the marriage of Peter Whitfield(file cutter)Ditton,(which was were Peter,b.1781,was born.)to Margaret Robinson.,Ditton.,on 13th Oct.1771.,All Saints.Rainford.

Looked for birth of THIS Peter...only 1 on Lancs opc..Peter Whitfield.,bapt. 21st Jul 1749.St.Wilfred.,Farnworth,nr Prescot.,son of Samuel Whitfield and Ann(living Ditton)

2 matches on Lancs opc for marriage of a Samuel Whitfield to an Ann.....(.first one in the right place)..17th March 1739/40.,St.Wilfred.,Farnworth.,nr Prescot.,...Samuel Whitfield(Ditton)to Ann Wainright(Ditton)..........the 2nd one was in Childwall to a Suzannah Foster

2 matches on Lancs opc for baptisms of Samuel Whitfield...one was in Childwall(son of John,Toxteth Park......could this be the one above,who married Suzannah?)

The second one was for Samuell Whitfield bapt.8th Oct.1710.son of William Whitfield.,Prescott.

1 match on Lancs opc for a marriage of a William Whitfield(between 1670 & 1690)..24th Dec.1682.,St.Michael.,Huyton.,to Mary Mullinex.

THEN,I come unstuck!....find 3 matches for bapt.of William Whitfield(between 1642 & 1662)
1. 13th Aug 1655.,All Saints.,Childwall..son of John Whitfield(Garston)
2. 17th Jun 1659.,All Saints.,Childwall.,son of Thomas Whitfield(Allerton)
3. 7th Oct 1660.,All Saints.,Childwall.,illegitimate son of Robert Webster and Elizabeth Whitfield.
Could John.,Thomas and Elizabeth be siblings,and all named their sons after their father?

Does all that make any sense L.A.,or is it completely wrong?!
Elaine

Lancs Records Office or the Lancashire Archives is the actual office building in Preston.
This address will give you the contact details.
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate/web/?siteid=4528&pageid=30757&e=e

You can fill in an enquiry form but if they are going to make a charge let me know as I may be visiting there in a couple of weeks.

This page shows what is available to search there.
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate/web/?siteid=4528&pageid=30542&e=e

As I said before only marriage up to 1750 are transcribed at present onto lan opc. The paper records for later years are held at the Lancs Archives building.

LA...what do you mean by Lancs or Cheshire Records office? Is that the same as Lancs OPC?

Thats where i found Peter Whitfield to Ellen Dumbell in 1809.

I did google *Burtonwood.Warrington?*,and it said Burtonwood was a civil parish in the outermost suburbs of Warrington.Cheshire,but Historically,it came under Warrington.Lancs.

Looked for a baptism of an Ellen Dumbell on Lancs OPC,and 4 came up.....one was 1760(be 49 in 1809).,one was 1766(be 43 in 1809).,one was 1794(be 15 in 1809)...(.the first two seemed on the old side to get married and start a family,and the other sounded too young)........the last one I thought looked promising..she was bapt.6th Nov.1785(be 24 at time of wedding in 1809),dau of William Dumbell(a carpenter) and Jane.
She was bapt. St.Elphin.,Warrington.

Did Peter and Ellen marry in Warrington,because that was were she was born and reared?

I suspect it may not be on-line. As all the baptisms were at Burtonwood the marriage could well have been there too. However the marriages for Burtonwood are only transcribed up to 1750. You need a look up at either Lancs or Cheshire Records office for later years.

As it is a printed register the staff at Lancs may do a quick look up for the appropriate years for free for you. Worth a try.

If they won't I can try to pop in sometime (I haven't been for ages as I have not had time to settle to my own research for several months).

Hi L.A.
BAPTISMS. St Michael and All Angels.,Burtonwood..

12th May 1811 (b.19th Apr.1811)..JOHN WITFIELD..son of Peter & Ellen Witfield (Burtonwood)father--file cutter.

12th Sept.1813..THOMAS WHITFIELD...son of Peter & Ellen(Burtonwood)father--farmer.

12th Jan.1817 (b.11th Dec.1815)...JAMES WHITFIELD...son of Peter & Ellen(Burtonwood)father--farmer.

21st Dec.1823 (b.6th Mar 1818)...JANE WHITFIELD...dau of Peter & Ellen(Burtonwood)Father--file cutter

21st Dec.1823 (b.16th Jun 1820)...MARGARET WHITFIELD...dau of Peter & Ellen(Burtonwood) father--file cutter

21st Dec.1823 (b.16th Jan 1823)...PETER WHITFIELD...son of Peter & Ellen(Burtonwood) father--file cutter

1st Jun 1828....ELLEN WHITFIELD...dau of Peter & Ellen(Burtonwood) father--file cutter

26th Apr 1829 (b.9th Apr 1829)...ELIZABETH WHITFIELD...dau of Peter & Ellen(Burtonwood) father--file cutter

Going off John being the first-born,I looked for marriages in the previous 10 yrs...could only find 1 for a Peter Whitfield to an Ellen....................

MARRIAGE...Warrington. Lancs.
24th Jan 1809
PETER WHITFIELD to ELLEN DUMBELL.

what do you think LancashireAnn?

Do you know,I thought that many a time....HOW did people know how old they were.,when they were born.,their birthday every year....most couldnt read or write.,so they couldnt read newspapers,even if they could afford to buy em..no tvs/radios.

I think I would be hard-pressed to know MY details! lol

just going perhaps on instinct

1841 - most probable

Peter Whitfield 55 - farmer (but on most of children's baptisms file cutter)
Ellen Whitfield 50
James Whitfield 25 - file cutter
Jane Whitfield 23
Margaret Whitfield 21 -witness at wedding????
Peter Whitfield 19
Ellen Whitfield 15
Elizabeth Whitfield 12

on Thomas (B1813), James & Elizabeth's baptism's = farmer

John called his 1st 2 children Peter & Ellen

John did not seem to know when he was born as it varies from census to census