Genealogy Chat

Hello!

I was wondering if someone could help me locate some family members? Im looking for the parents of William Allen and Elsie M Cross. I've listed below everything i know.

William Allen b. 31 August 1905
m. 1929 Birmingham uk
d. 1975 Birmingham uk

(wife) Elsie M Cross b. 5 January 1909
d. just after husband although cannot find a death record

D.O.B are from the 1939 register where they were living at 23 Fieldhead Road, Birmingham

Children

Reggie Allen b. 5th May 1929
Jean Joy Allen (later Hodges) b. 11th Dec 1930 Birmingham
William (Billy) Arthur b. 1932 Birmingham
Albert b. 1934 Birmingham
a daughter b. 1937 Birmingham
a daughter b. 1942 Birmingham
a daughter b. 1947 Birmingham

William was listed as a Porter in 1939


Thanks in advance

12 William Allen birth registrations England and Wales Q3/Q4 1905, none in Birmingham area.

No second initial showing on marriage registration but if you get the certificate it might help to track him down as hopefully his Father is named and his occupation given.

Unless you know they have died you should remove full DOB's as the site is not secure and against GR T&C's

Sorry Greyghost - amended my post! thanks for the heads up!

For some reason William was nicknamed Reg? which is odd as that wasn't his name at all?! His first son was also named Reg so im hoping now if i look at the 12 williams maybe one of them will have a connection to a Reg?

Also i tried searching for this Reggies birth record but the only one i can see which fits the area is 1930? All the other Reg's are born in places such as Cornwall which i doubt would be him as the parents were married in Wawickshire and all his siblings were born there.... any thoughts?

Well, that transcription has been messed up Allen Household (5 People). Have put in capitals what the actual original record says and will report.

IF DOB's are showing then they have presumably died

23 Fieldhead Road , Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
William Allen 31 Mar 1938 Male Under School Age Married 155 1 PORTER 31.8.1905
Elsie M Allen 31 Aug 1905 Female Porter Married 155 2 HOUSEWORK UNPAID 5.1.1909
Reggie Allen 05 Jan 1909 Male Housework (Unpaid) Single 155 3 SCHOOL 5.5.1929
Jean Hodges (Allen) 05 May 1929 Female At School Single 155 4 SCHOOL 11.12.1930
Albert Allen 16 Jun 1932 Male At School Single 155 6 SCHOOL 20.11.1933

There are 2 closed records - presume William (Billy) and Margaret

I did notice they messed it up! I ended up purchasing the record because the preview made no sense! i too reported. :)

Only 2 Elsie M Cross births to fir the DOB shown on the 1939. There is 6 weeks in which to register a birth, so they sometime slip into the next quarter, but a 5th January should be a March Qtr reg. Unless of course the year of birth is wrong (it happens)

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1909 (>99%)
Cross Elsie Maud E. Retford 7b 15 - died 1910 E. Retford
Cross Elsie May Bristol 6a 182

Do you have the marriage certificate. It would name the Father's and their occupations - hopefully may be able to find them on the 1911 census then. Also should give her second name.
And the other possibility - that she had been previously married and so born under another surname !! It would have been tight if only born 1909 and she married William in 1929, but possible. You need it ......

Could Elsie's birth year be wrong in the 1939??

The following is registered in the correct quarter .............

Name: Elsie May Cross
Registration Year: 1908
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Birmingham
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 43

If the birth year was 1908, then this could be Elsie with her family in 1911

1911 Census

Name: William Edwin Cross
Age in 1911: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Search Photos: Search for 'Birmingham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street address: 151 Barford Street Birmingham England
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Warehouse Man
Registration district: Birmingham
Registration District Number: 384
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Piece: 18129

William Edwin Cross 32
Elizabeth Cross 29 b.ca 1882, Birmingham
William Edwin Cross 6
Ellen Cross 4
>>>>>> Elsie Cross 3 b.ca 1908, Birmingham
Joeph Cross 1



CROSS, ELSIE MAY mmn BEDDOWS
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 43

A Public Family Tree has Elsie May Cross born 24 Jan 1908, married William Allen, died Sept 1982, Solihull.

However they have her parents as Bertram Cross and Jessie Winifred Purchas ........ BUT the 1911 Census they show as "evidence" does not have an Elsie Cross born 1908 on it :-( :-)


I do suspect that she had the wrong birth year in 1939



????

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Elsie May Allen
Birth Date: 24 Jan 1908
Date of Registration: Sep 1982
Age at Death: 74
Registration district: Solihull South
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 34
Page: 0132


England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: William Allen
Birth Date: 31 Aug 1905
Date of Registration: Jun 1975
Age at Death: 69
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 32
Page: 0741

I THINK this is why you cannot find Reggie's birth registration ..........

Marriages Sep 1929 (>99%)
Allen William Cross Birmingham S 6d 814
Cross Elsie M Allen Birmingham S. 6d 814


Reggie's birth according to 1939 Register -- 5 May 1929

from Freebmd .........

Births Jun 1929 (>99%)
Cross Reginald Cross Birmingham S. 6d 328



He was born before they married ...........

That tree with parents Bertram and Jessie seems to be wrong because they had daughter May Caroline Cross 1907.

Bertram Frederick Cross 1871 died 1956 married Jessie Leah Prime in 1903.

Maryb.

William Reginald Allen J/A/S 1904 Fordingbridge Hampshire V2b P696
to Harry Allen 1881 London and Alice born Devonshire.

I wonder if this is where the Reggie came from ?

Maryb.

Mary ...........

I assumed that tree was wrong because it did not have an Elsie in it ..........


in other words, a typical improperly research ancestry tree


and that means that Bertram and Jessie are a false trail....

It does at least rule out that family



I think the tree I posted at 18:40 is more likely to be correct

ie ............


William Edwin Cross 32
Elizabeth Cross 29 b.ca 1882, Birmingham
William Edwin Cross 6
Ellen Cross 4
>>>>>> Elsie Cross 3 b.ca 1908, Birmingham
Joeph Cross 1



However, the marriage certificate is needed to be sure of Elsie's father, as well as William's.

I did suspect that the d.o.b was incorrect as i couldn't find a death certificate! but i think i ended up staring at the screen for so long yesterday i just started to confuse myself!

I was with William and Elsie's granddaughter yesterday and mentioned that it seemed Reggie might not be Elsie's son and she said that might make sense as no one knows much about him and he always kinda kept his distance!

Im going to have a proper read through all your input this afternoon when i get a quiet moment at work.

Thank you all for your help!

x :-D

Nadine .................

If I am right with that birth registration ...................

Births Jun 1929 (>99%)
Cross Reginald Cross Birmingham S. 6d 328


Reggie WAS Elsie's son ............... he might not have been William's, even though they married soon after his birth.

They could of course have been in a common-law relationship, just didn't marry until after Reggie was born.

could William allen have been born in Nottingham nearest place to Warwickshire
would be reg in September s quater

ALLEN, WILLIAM    
GREEN  

GRO Reference: 1905  S Quarter in NOTTINGHAM  Volume 07B  Page 464

CROSS, ELSIE  MAUD  
ASKEW  

GRO Reference: 1909  M Quarter in EAST RETFORD  Volume 07B  Page 15

this could be the parents of elsie southwell is in nottinghamshire

Marriages Sep 1903   (>99%)

Askew
 Emily
 
 Southwell
 7b
797
  
CROSS
 John George
 
 Southwell
 7b
797

As already posted yesterday - the birth in East Retford RD, noted as died 1910 same RD

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1909 (>99%)
Cross Elsie Maud E. Retford 7b 15

Here's the death from the GRO - the age I expect will be 11 months as GRO can't yet distinguish years and months (0 on freebmd)

Name Age at death (in years)
CROSS, ELSIE MAUD 11 Order
GRO Reference: 1910 M Quarter in EAST RETFORD Volume 07B Page 13