General Chat

hi KathrynB (in.Canada) like i said in the title i wanted other peoples views i have gave mine which i am fully intitled to after all it is a free country guess by your reaction you have had a termanation and regreted it or maybe it was the best thing you did maybe it was right for you but all i tried to say in my previous message is its not for me thats the way i was brought up i never said everyone had the same views why should i with draw my thred if you dont like what some people have to say please leave your coments to yourself and dont read them!! i am not trying to be nasty i am not that type of person i am sorry if i have touched a spot in your life that hurts you i was just giving my point and asked for others which you clearly have problems with! as for your phase dwelling on it, i wouldnt term it as that and can guess i talk for most of the woman that has posted messages on this thread as we did want this baby like all the rest of our children instead of the word dwelling i would term it a greiving or remebering the child we lost as do most people that have gone through the same as us!!

morning sarah,
sorry to hear of your loss, we lost a baby at 12 weeks, but it was a partial misscarraige.
i know how you feel, you'll always remember and the plaque sounds wonderfull
we've had 2 boys since and the one i lost, i hope was a girl... :))) xxx
as for changing the law, to do that they would have to change the abortion law aswell, as you can still have them up to 24 weeks.........:(
sarah concentrate on greiving for now and building your family.... :) xxx
you take care,
kaz xxx

edit,
i was given this site, i hope it can help you & your family.... you can print off certs, & a forum too its a lovely site.. :)
http://babylossandhealing.com/
http://babylossandhealing.com/forums/
http://babylossandhealing.com/certificates.html

Hi Brian

I think that talking about things and airing your feelings is a very healthy way of dealing with any loss. I believe that bottling things up often causes more problems later on, . I understand that in years gone by talking it through often wasn't the *done thing* however times change and for me, I found the freedom to talk to people about what happened to me immensely helpful. Different strokes for different folks I guess xx

Sorry to hear of your loss.

We lost a baby at 12 weeks and just got on with our lives.

We took it as part of the natural order of things and concluded that there's no point in harping back to what might have been.
We remember the event, but do not celebrate it.

Sorry if that sounds uncaring, but nowdays we seem to get emotional over things that our ancestors took in their stride.

Lady Di's funeral was a typical example. At the end of the day it was just another accident, albeit to someone in the media spotlight. More than eight people a day are killed in similar circumstances in the UK with families who are less able to cope. The thousands of people who went OTT for someone they had only seen on TV or in the papers was ridiculous in my view.

i am really sorry for everyone who has lost their babies and thankful for all the replies and info people has gave me hopefully this will also help other people going though the same thing i have always said its the people that has gone though what you have that gives the best info and help after all how can you tell someone what to do and help them if you dont know what they are going through or if you havent been through yourself

hi Purple **^*Sparkly*^** Diamond thank you for your reply and the info about sands!! it was very helpful i also had no foot prints etc i was put in a side room and left, then i got told two hours later i could go they gave me no info or anything 5 days later a leaflet landed on my door mat with a little note saying they forgot to give me this leaflet (private ceromonies and comunitie ones) i felt i had been failed by the hospital as the leaflet said i only had a week to decide what to do and if no contact had been know the baby would be cremated, i was in instant shock as it was a saturday and know one answered the phone at the chapel in the hospital so i had to wait till monday luckly there was a delay in picking the dead babies up so i just made the call intime i dont know what i would of done if i couldnt of had a private cerman it just felt to me it was something i had to do for me and my family my perants came down to kent all the way from newcastle and the children seamed to understand abit more that mummy wasnt going to have the baby sister they where expecting to have later in the year the priest was really nice and so was the crematorium we felt the baby should be buried in myy husbands family plot and so she was!! it does help having some where to go and remember her we called her shakira and the children made a nice plack for her which made them feel they helped which aslo helped them

Sarah, my deepest sympathy on your sad loss. I gave birth ten weeks prematurely to a little girl, weighing only 1 lb 10 oz, on January 31st 1974. She lived for just three days, I didn't get to hold her and didn't see her after her death. I was in shock and was offered no help at all, in coming to terms with her death, no photographs, hand or footprints, nothing. I had to go and register her birth and death at the same time. The only thing the hospital did was offer her the chance to be baptized a few hours after her birth and this was done.
I then had to arrange her burial and she was buried in a common grave, an old one already used. I didn't go to the funeral as I was told parents didn't altho I sent a posy of flowers and one from my parents, her grandparents. When I later found that this grave could be opened and another baby put in, I was very upset and was told I could buy the burial rights, which I did. That entitled me to put a headstone there and that is what I did. It helped to have somewhere to go to mourn her especially as I had little support from her father, or my family. One cousin told me not to go to the grave if it upset me, when she saw me one Christmas Day after I had been, her with her two healthy daughters telling me to ignore my baby! 34 yrs on I still mourn her greatly, my life has been incomplete without her altho I am lucky to have a lovely son coming up to 26 yrs of age.

I have copied the following about SANDS, which you might find helpful. I am sure when I went to a special memorial service for lost babies a while back, they had a book where you could add your baby's name so do look on the site and see if there is something there where you can 'register' your little one.
I think you are dealing with it in exactly the right way with your other children and it will be a small comfort to you and them to talk about your lost baby. I told my son about his big sister when he was old enough to understand and he came with me to the grave when ever I went there.
My thoughts are with you and all who mourn lost little ones, who never had a taste of life.
Do have a look at the SANDS site as there is lots of useful information and support there.
Lizxx




Welcome to Sands
Sands is an organisation which can offer you support when your baby dies during pregnancy or after birth.

The death of a baby is a devastating experience. The effects of grief can be overwhelming and parents, their families and friends can be left feeling dazed, disorientated, isolated and exhausted.

It can be hard to take in information, to make decisions or to imagine how you are going to cope.

At Sands there are people who understand what it's like because many of us have been through this experience ourselves, and we are here to help offer support and information when you need it.

Support for all
The death of a baby can happen to any one of us. What brings us together in Sands is the common experience of this painful loss.

Your baby may have been stillborn or died during or soon after birth. He or she might have spent some time in a special care baby unit. It may be that your baby died at an earlier gestation or that you had to make the difficult decision to end your pregnancy. We offer support whenever a baby dies.

As well as supporting mothers and fathers, we are also able to help other members of your family, especially grandparents and other children. Many people may be touched by your baby's death, including friends and health professionals, and all are welcome to contact us for support and information.

You may not want anything from us right away. We are here to help whenever you feel you need it. That may be now or in a few weeks months or even years.

Our core aims:
Sands is a national charity, established by bereaved parents in 1981.

We have 3 core aims which are to:

Support anyone affected by the death of a baby;

To work in partnership with health professionals to improve the quality of care and services offered to bereaved families; and

To promote research and changes in practice that could help to reduce the loss of babies' lives

thank you for your post KathrynB (in.Canada) i understand your point but the parents should be given a choice to register the death of a baby no matter how old it is after all at 12 weeks it looks like a baby and the purpose of a death register is to remind you of the people who are no longer with us isn't it? and for the family of the future to trace the family of the past, if this didnt happen there would be no way of tracing other family would there apart from word of mouth and sites like this would be useless. As for my greiving affecting my chidren have you ever lost a child??in a large family like mine its hard to hide your feelings especially when you have a ten year old that likes to know everything, its better to talk to your children not hide things from them!, that way they build a stronger trust with you, sorry if i am wrong but i was a very young mother i still am and have a very close good relationship with my children why would i not talk to them about their little sister that died when they have a right to know and they where looking forward to having another little sister??? as for showing grief well thats hard to as you try your best not to show it but inside it does tear you apart no matter how hard you try to stop it but as my father once said a problem shared is a problem halved!! and if my chidren know about their little sister from the start it will cause them less heart ache in the future!!

julia yes we have a family one ( grave) with her grandad and great grandmother and great grandfather also her father and myself will also be buried there which is nice hopefully extend the plot for more family members

Sarah, you loss is a very painful one - the loss of a future you hoped to have, that now will not happen.

But the loss is yours and your family's, and not a loss of a member of our society, our human community, because the person you are grieving is a person who never was. That is the very sad thing for your family, that there was someone who could have been and now will not be.

In fact, it is thought that about half of all fertilized eggs -- *potential* people -- do not develop into full-term pregnancies and births. Most, women (perhaps luckily) never know about the loss, it is so early. Some are lost after women and their families have already begun to plan and dream for their futures with a new family member.

It would be perfectly appropriate for you and your family, and friends if you choose, to hold a ceremony of whatever kind would help you in your loss.

But to answer your question about changing laws: no "official" recognition of that loss as a death of a person would be appropriate. That would put government in a position of monitoring women's bodies, so that if we had a late period, an investigation would have to be held to decide whether a death certificate should be issued ... or if we had a late-term miscarriage, an investigation would have to be held to decide whether we had "killed" our fetus. That's not something most of us would want to happen.

I was conceived during the term of my mother's first pregnancy, which ended in miscarriage. If that pregnancy had been successful, a healthy baby might have been born and lived to today ... but I would not have been born. I know that if my mother were given the chance to change history, she could never decide -- avoid the pain of that loss and have the child she never had, or not have me? Sometimes nature just makes those decisions for us, and our lives turn out as they do.

As you know from what other women say, miscarriage is an unfortunately common experience. It is truly important that your family and friends recognize the painful loss you have had. I'm not being one of those people who says "it's all for the best, dear", because of course it isn't, it's horrible. Be sure to take the time you need to grieve, and be sure to talk to people who understand your loss and won't try to minimize it and hurry you back to "normal".

If I may offer some unsolicited advice, make sure your other children don't absorb your grief, which they are too young to really understand. And most importantly, keep communication open with your husband.

Hi Sarah

Sorry to hear of your loss. I too lost babies in the first trimester ...... I wasn't given the option of any ceremony and I think it would've been helpful for me to have been able to mark their existance in some small way.

I have two healthy children now but I've never forgotten my lost ones and think about them on their *birthdays* and on the anniversaries of their loss and sometimes just out of the blue when I see a child who I think he/she would've looked like.

All my babies were named.......only my husband and a few close friends know their names and that has helped a bit but I do agree with you that some sort of certificate to show that they DID exist for a short time would bring comfort.

Take care of yourself xx

Sarah...please accept my condolences on your loss.

My sister gave birth to a little boy, Andrew David, 40 years ago at 6 months. He lived for only a few hours. She never got to hold him(:
and was never told what had happened to him.

Years later she had a nervous breakdown and during counselling was advised to find out more about what had happened to her son as it was felt that this would help in her recovery.

She contacted the hospital and gained access to the records which showed that Andrew had been buried in a local cemetery
with an elderly man. She was told they never buried infants on their own, which I thought was very moving.

She found the grave and got permission to lay flowers there. She felt this was a form of closure and although she talks about him with love frequently the guilt she felt has now gone.

I think Sally's idea of a plaque in your garden or nearby is a lovely one.

Jean x.

Hi Sarah
sorry about your loss i no how it feels my daughter carried her baby girl the full nine months but due to complacations she was born dead,my daughter could,nt even look at her,i buried her with my mum and dad that was 23yrs ago,but the hospital gave her photo of the little one but one never forgets ,take care
Dutchxx

Hi Sarah,

Although i have never experienced it myself, My aunt lost a baby at 15 weeks, she was able to have the foot prints and photos that some people have mentioned but keeps them tucked away as it is still to painful for her to deal with. The baby was still given birth to, has a full name and was given a funeral and burial but was never given a birth or death certificate.

I feel the same as you do that these chidren should not be forgotten, they were living children regardless of how many weeks old, im sure it would help yourself and people like my aunt and uncle if your children were to be given certificates to validate their lives, no matter how short.

All the best Kirsty

Hi Sarah,

So sorry to here about your loss, my sister was a stillborn years ago my 1st sister died of meningitis
due to the shock of the death my 2nd sister ws stillborn cant find anything on her been to the parish no luck i would love to know were she was buried

i do think there should be something official

Sarah - in recent years I found out that my mother was carrying twins when she had my younger brother. The 'other' one, never properly developed,and was flat, because my brother was over nine pounds. I was going to the place of the birth for a holiday,after I found out, but some years ago now,and decided to look at the hospital records. But do you know, when it came to it,I couldn't do it. Why? Because my mother was alive, and I felt I could not intrude on something so personal. It has never been 'talked' about in the family to this day, though I did get an aunt to 'blab', but only just. I do not think to this day that my brother knows he was a twin, and he is nearly sixty. Do you know, my Dad is still alive at 86, but I don't know if even he knows. That's the way it was in them days.
Myself, I lost two, and as was the 'custom' of the day, the doctor took them away in a bucket. Another,a twin,died when I was six months. I knew something was wrong that day, but didn't know what until the birth of the other one,as to what had happened. I was never given a body. Years later,one day she said to me, "Mum,I was a twin wasn't I". I cried buckets. She is absolutely gorgeous,and from a recently recieved photo of my gran as a young person, is the spitting image. But in 'my day', it was all swept under the carpet, with no support at all, and you just had to get on with it. I have found this thread so cathartic,it is unbelievable.
Julia in Derbyshire

Hi Sarah, feel for you really I do - been there - got the T-shirt but thought things might have changed a bit. Back in the 60's I miscarried at 2 months, 3 months and 4 months. All swept under the carpet and no one ever mentioned it again. Fortunately I did have a baby boy who is still my baby although he's 41 this month!!

Hello Sarah......that is very sad......why not have a pretty plaque made up and put it somewhere quiet in your garden where you can go and see it.......the baby will always remain in your heart.....x

Sarah, I am so sorry for your loss.
We celebrate the *birthday* of our lost baby every year... my miscarriage was too early to determine the sex, but we always refer to her as a girl, and she also has the name we would have given her had she lived. She is Jessica Mary, and she would have been 28 on or around 29th February... my estimated due date was 29th Feb.

I will never forget her, nor will my husband... we were unable to have any more, although we have two sons in their 30's.
Naming her was our way of coping with the grief, many of our family and friends thought it bizarre, especially in those days as you weren't really meant to talk about such things. She had no funeral, and there is no official mention of her... just a brief note in my medical documents. But she has a name and she is still in our hearts and thoughts.... we don't dwell on it, but we talk of her often, and that is the most important thing... whilst we are alive, so too is a part of her!

Love and ((((hugs)))))

Daff xxx

Dear Sarah, your sorrow is shared.
I miscarried one at 10 weeks, that was about 40 years ago, wasn't offered any options, that's it, done and forgotten. At the time that was the norm.

I lost a son at full-term, there was a funeral and burial obviously, but it was all done while I was still in hospital so it didn't help with my personal grief. My 3 living children put a notice in the paper this year to remember his 35th birthday. Never forgotten.

I also lost twins at 16 weeks, both of whom had names selected. No funeral but also never forgotten by myself or my other 3 children.

Here in Canada, the usual process is that, as there is viability at 20 3/7 weeks, a funeral and burial is held for any loss after that time.

Celebrate the brief time you had the little one, and do what's right for you. Don't let anyone tell you it's not appropriate. It IS appropriate for you.
Sending hugs,
MAry