General Chat

What a wonderfully satisfying story Brian. I hope you get lots of photos and that you can tell us what you get.

Ann
Glos

Brian how wonderful your persistance paid off, I'm hoping the same with my research in USA.

Hope you get lots of photo's etc.

Frances

Well done you :~)
so happy for you... hope the postman arrives with lots of goodies for you.

I have been trying to trace my Dads family for many many years but as you say never give up

The moral of this story is NEVER, EVER give up !

8 years 4 months and 1 day after my Dad died and with nothing to go on because he was given away nine years before the 1927 Adoption Act I received a phone call at lunchtime yesterday that has answered many of my questions and will ultimately solve this puzzle from 1918.

When all the certificates arrived they showed that David Robert Crook had indeed married Christine I Barton in Wigan in 1973 and, worse still, his death in 1994 at the tragically young age of 47 was confirmed.

Having finally found my Dads mother and family I was faced with the fact that all his known close relatives were dead. I then set about tracing David's widow, Christine I Crook, and as I could not find a record of her remarrying up to 2005 on Ancestry I wrote to every Christine Crook on the 2008/2009 electoral roll and it paid off !

Yesterday the phone rang and I spent TWO hours speaking to a very, very lovely lady from Southport, David's widow Christine. She herself had finally remarried last June so if I had access to this years electoral roll, 2009/2010, she would not have been traceable under her new surname !
She had so much to tell me it was like uncorking a bottle and we couldn't believe how much my cousin David and I had in common. He was 5 years older than me and we were born and grew up just six miles apart. His father, my Dads brother Robert (Bob) also spent his whole life literally 'down the road' in Burton-on-Trent.
Christine and David adopted two babies of their own and the oldest shares my name, Brian, he is 31 now but sadly autistic, his sister Katy is 29.
As I write this Christine and Katy are searching attics for photos and albums that David inherited when his own parents died in 1974 and 1975 so you can imagine how stressful it will be waiting for the postman this week !

I may never learn precisely why Lilian had to give my Dad away but its an incredible feeling to finally trace your heritage. As I said at the beginning if anybody finds themselves in a similar situation please never give up hope.

Thanks to everybody who has read and taken an interest in my story.

Best wishes from Brian

Hi Penny

My heart sunk when I saw your post and I think this is definitely 'my' David Crook. The date is correct as he was born in the September quarter and there was only one other David R Crook in that quarter of 1947, born in Greenwich, London.

What really clinches it is where he died in Wigan because in my list of 17 marriages for David R Crook there is one in 1973, marrying a Christine I Barton, in a place called INCE in Lancashire and when I checked the map it turns out that Ince is a district of, you guessed it, Wigan !

I will order the death cerificate tomorrow and if it is him I will at least have address and family informant details to go on. Frustratingly there are no births showing for Crook/Barton after 1973 so his widow Christine Crook may be my best hope of finding something.

Christine Barton was born in Ince in 1951 and I cannot trace her marrying again so I am hoping that a 2009 electoral roll search might find her still in the Wigan area.

There is also just a slight possibility that David had brothers and sisters because I have found 7 other children born after 1947 with the surname Crook and mothers maiden name of Cross. All are in other parts of the country and will have to be checked out in due course.

Yes George I did know about Lilian Warrilow's death in 1960 but many thanks for the kind thought in searching for me. I have already ordered the certificate as well as the one for Joseph Warrilows death, also in Burton, in 1952.

My daily thanks to all again !

Brian

a death of a Lilian L Warrilow was registered in Burton on Trent in 1960 aged 73

Her death certificate will give you the informant which may be her nearest relative at the time.

George

Could this be the death of David?

Are there many David R 's born in 1947?



NAME:
David Robert Crook
BIRTH:
19 Sep 1947
DEATH:
Jul 1994 - Wigan, Lancashire, England




Penny

this is all fascinating to read
thanks brian for sharing with us,

Thanks Brian, I will get o.h. to cough up for certs in the New Year and see what we can find out!

Good luck to you with the rest of your research

Merry Christmas.

Lizx

Hi Liz
I have discovered it is very difficult, nigh on impossible, to research adoptions before 1st Jan 1927 but as I have proved you must not give up because you never know what small clue may be around the corner.
I would certainly try and get copies of birth, death and marriage certificates relating to your grandfather and great grandfather because there might be something there, a name or address or occupation that helps in other directions.
Thanks Rose I had just discovered myself that Robert Cryer died in Hull as you say in 1934 which suggests that he was separated from Lilian but she must have known because she remarried 2 years later as a widow.
With the kind help of Sheila I also know that Robert George W Crook died in Burton in 1974 so it looks as if my main hope of finding direct descendants lies with his son David R Crook born in 1947.
Hopefully when I get a copy of the death certificate the informant will have been David and give me his address at the time. Unfortunately I have located 17 marriages for a David R Crook between 1964 and 1995 but none of them in either Burton on Trent or Staffordshire which leaves me with a headache !
Once again many thanks to all !

Brian

Thanks for the update Brian. Lucky she had an unusual name.

I see Robert died in Hull in 1934.

Rose

Well that was almost a Christmas present to you Brian, to find all that out.
It would be lovely if you could find some other descendents of these people but well done for getting this far.

My o.h.'s father told him recently that his g.grandfather was adopted, the only reason they knew was that a great aunt of o.h. had mentioned it. There is no other information at all and with g. grandfather long gone and named James? Smith, I have no idea how anything could be back traced now. I did suggest we get certificates of o.h.'s grandfather's birth certificate in case there was anything there and g.grandfather's birth and death certificate too if we could get a birthdate or death date to narrow things down, would that show any relevant info?

Lizx

The searching is nearly over !

My sister in law, Pat, decided to search forward for LILIAN LEAH CRYER as no trace had ever been found of her birth or marriage to 'George Smith' who plainly never existed.

She found a marriage for Lilian L Cryer to Joseph Warrilow in Burton in 1936 and when the certificate arrived the mystery began to unravel.
It was indeed Lilian LEAH Cyer, a widow aged 48 and her father was WILLIAM RUFUS CROOK. We had long know that a Lilian Leah Crook had married Robert Thomas A Cryer in Bath in 1909 but could never find a link.

I have been able to piece together a fairly complete family tree for the 'CROOKS' and the 'CRYERS' from Bath and I am now searching for the final piece of the jigsaw i.e. to try and discover the circumstances of my Dad being given up to the workhouse at birth.

I can only guess that Lilian became pregnant by somebody called 'Villier' and arranged to leave the clues to his true identity with the middle names of Villier and Cryer. It is interesting that 'Mr Smith' did not register the birth until 6th June, some 8 weeks after my Dad was born.

I have traced one other son of Lilian, he was born ROBERT GEORGE W CROOK in Bath in the Jan-Mar quarter 1909 because that was several months before she married Robert Cryer. Robert appears to have grown up and lived in Burton on Trent because he married SARAH ELLEN B CROSS there in 1937. I have traced only one child so far, DAVID R CROOK born in Burton in 1947.

To complete my story I would like to appeal for information on any of the following :-

1) David Crook and/or Sarah Cross and their families.
2) Any family of Joseph Thomas Warrilow from Burton who was a widower when he married Lilian in 1936.
3) Any descendants of the Crook and Cryer families from Bath in the early 1900's.

I would like to thank everybody who responded to my earlier post and offered help and advice.

Best wishes and a Happy Xmas to all.

Brian

Hi Brian

Could not find her birth, but was just wondering given that this is just after the first world was could she have been a widow when she married George ? her maiden name would still be down as Cryer, but you would then not find a marriage for a Cryer to a Smith.

The birth certificate is my only source of information apart from the Burton on Trent Union document. It doesn't give me a middle name or initial for the Father, just plain George Smith. They have clearly declared themselves married because in the 'Mother' column it says Lilian Leah Smith formerly Cryer.
George Smith, living at 56 Moor Street, is given as the informant on 6th June which is exactly seven weeks after my Dad was born on 18th April 1918.
Cryer may well be a name from a previous marriage and I have attempted to cross reference all the registered 'Lilian Leah' births with Cryer in marriage searches but no luck.
Today I have searched the 1911 census to see who liveed at 56 Moor Street and even 65 just in case but no sign of any Smith, Villier Cryer etc just 2 young families working locally.
Thanks again for all the advice !
Brian

Hi

Do you know if George has a middle initial ? I wonder if Lillian has been married before, her maiden name would still be Cryer, on the birth but she may have married under another name .

Brian,

I live in Burton on Trent and I have just looked through the Phone Directory.

There are no Cryers or Viller/Villiers/Villers in the book so it looks as if he left the area. There are no descendents here now, unless they were female and got married.

Good luck in your search, but I don't think the answer is in Burton.

Brian, Dont take the birth certificates at face value. My two cousins asked me to find their mother's birth family
She had been adopted, and I knew her birth name, when I obtained her birth certificate, never had I seen such a load of lies. Her mother had put her surname down with a different spelling,just changing one letter, her two uncles names, as her father, and her own mother's maiden name as hers.This was in 1919, Done to hide illegitimacy.
What I did ,I looked back at the 1901 census, and then the 1891 census, and found the family, and this is how I had found the true name.
I then looked up and found the mother had married in 1920, and remembering what my aunt had told me, about her father, found yes it was true he was a Canadian Soldier, and they went to Canada, but did not take their daughter with them. I then put a notice on a Website for Canada and found the family. Not that I got in touch with them, but just let my cousins know who their mothers family were

A big THANK YOU to all !!
Being a relative 'novice' to the world of genealogy it did not occur to me that there may be electoral roll records available so that opens up a new line of enquiry.
On BMD and census records I have endlessly tried every permutation I can think of for Lilian Leah Cryer - Lily, Lillian, Leah Lilian, omitting the first name, omitting her middle name etc etc.
I printed off a list of all births registered Lilian Leah thinking that she could have married a 'Cryer' and been widowed or divorced.
Of course researching a name like George Smith is searching for the proverbial needle in a haystack but there is no trace of a marriage.
Were they married abroad ( independent means therefore wealthy ??) as Villier suggests the continent ?
Was George Smith away in the Great War and was my Dad the illigitimate son of a wartime affair ?
From the certificate that I have he appears to have been given up to the Burton on Trent Union at birth and adopted by my Grandad within weeks.
I did go to Lichfield library who hold the admissions register for the Burton on Trent Union but frustratingly I could find no mention of my Dad.
I intend to go back and have another try !
To add spice to the mystery my Mum, who is now 89, recalls a story that my Dad's mother was an actress !! This takes me into the realms of an Agatha Christie mystery but would it be feasible that a lodger (actress) staying with the Smiths gave birth and handed the baby over for adoption leaving no link to herself ?
Could her name have been Villier ?
The most striking thing about my Dad is the choice of middle names - Villier and Cryer. I believe that they hold the key to unlocking the mystery.
Sorry for rambling on but I hope this gives you a flavour of what has been driving me mad for 8 years !
Brian

Have you looked at the workhouse records, which would give admission & discharge for the mother .