General Chat

Frightened householders who over-react when confronted by burglars will get more protection under Government plans, the new Justice Secretary will say today.

Chris Grayling plans to change the law to ensure even householders who use force in a way that may seem disproportionate in the cold light of day will be protected from prosecution.

Was burgled in May and was very angry and told police I nearly caught one of them and would have hurt him badly, even at my advanced age. Policeman told me clearly that I would have been arrested and in a lot of trouble.

Any thoughts about this change, which will be heralded in Birmingham today by the Justice Secretary?

Sufficient force to protect yourself if threatened, to chase them away or detain them is OK in my book, as long as you have enough control to stop before doing too much harm.

There was a case a year or so ago when a householder rounded up a group of friends/relatives to find the perpetrator after the householder had lost contact with him in a chase. They beat up the burgular quite badly when they found him, even after he was subdued.

DET Interesting points. One thing police told me is that many of them now carry knives and that they can go to a burglary where the victim is bleeding profusely. And burglars seem to have fast communications, so any beating up could result in a major skirmish if his mates arrived.

I get the impression that farmer Martin (who shot dead a burglar in back when the gentleman was trying to escape from his farm) would not be found guilty if same thing happened under proposed Grayling regulations.

In the heat of battle in my "castle", I saw a red mist and reckon I would have done a lot of harm to my young burglar. My family were upstairs, my kittens were scampering about and terrified. He was only about 15 and had my nice new telly and sat nav away. Left front door slightly open and then came back for seconds - that is when I nearly got him. TV and sat nav not things I even value very much, but I felt exactly as Martin must have felt on his isolated farm at that moment. No questions, no thought of tomoorow, just hit him as hard and as often as I could.

It will be interesting to hear what Grayling says today. And how people outside the Tory annual back-slapping jamboree will react to his proposed changes.

I agree with DET but I could never condone violence. I detest burglars - how dare they help themselves to the belongings of people who work hard for what they have. However vigilantism isn't to be encourage. There would be anarchy in the streets:-0

The other problem is that violence leads to more violence. Let the police deal with it - you wouldn't want the burglar's mates turning up one day.

There's probably a difference between Druggies needing to feed a habit, and the 'proffessional' burgular. Even then the 'proffessionals' can be divided into those who want to get in and out without being detected, and those who go as a gang to threaten the householder into opening a safe - they're the ones who might try and get vengence in the future.

Apart from the latter, both parties are likely to be fired up with adrenalin and frightened. Who knows what we would each do in the circumstances?

Even under the new proposals, Tony Martin (the farmer) should have been prosecuted, not because he shot the burgular, but because he didn't immediately call the emergency services once he no longer felt threatened.

Similarly in the case I quoted, the householder was wrong in my opinion to act as part of a vigilanty group and actively seek out the burgular after he had lost him in the chase.

Our paper featured a burgular who got trapped upside down by a shoelace when climbing in through a front fan-light window in broad daylight. Rather than break in to release him, the police waited until the householder returned several hours later. Poetic justice! :-D

I like that one DET. Our local paper had an article on a burglar who was trapped by a window coming down across his shoulders. The neighbours threw tomatoes and fruit at him - the police took their time :-D

About time but i would like them to go further,

Having been a victim of a burglar who woke me at 3.30am in the early 90's if i had managed to catch him i would have hurt him regardless what the law says,

I chased him for around 200 yards before i realised i was still in my night wear (i sleep in my birthday suit) and so returned to my house where my wife had already phoned the police,

The police officer told me that if i had managed to catch him and would have hit him and was told i would have been arrested if i had
Whilst the police where at the house the burglar calmly walked past and when i pointed out to the officer that was the man i chased he said he was known to them and did nothing about it, he said that failed burglars often go back to the scene of the crime a short time after, I was given a crime number and that was the last i heard

Just one thought about what action a person takes when disturbed from your sleep.

As an ex soldier if you are woken from your sleep and lash out at the person who awoke you and hurt/injury him then the army say you have not committed any offence because under military law a man is not responsible for his actions for the first 1 minute when woken from a deep sleep

Personally had i caught him whilst still in my house i would drag him to an upstairs bedroom window and throw him out, then i would tell the police he jumped whilst trying to escape

Roy

Ooooh Roy, I like that!

Our house is on a very sloping block, so the back of the house is 3 stories high!

If OH (he's a BIG man) was chasing him, I'm sure he'd jump!

If I was chasing him, he'd jump......... cos I'd have a poker in my hand.

Wow - just for pinching your telly? A death penalty for robbery :-(

Sue We are in deep recession over here now, and unfortunately no tomatoes or fruit. :-( :-(

When we are not in heat of battle, things are very different. Someone asked me yesterday if he could apply for a job with my firm. He looked quite suitable, then said he had a criminal record for petty burglary!!!!

I was quite calm, said they considered people with a spent conviction and actually felt very sorry for him. Trying to go straight and do something with his life etc.

But if he had been my burglar, I could easily have killed or maimed him (or been killed, I suppose). And I would have felt terrible the following day, but it can get you that way. And you don't think of any repercussions.

Don't know ins and outs of Tony Martin, but I would not have gone looking for dead or live burglars till daybreak (with plenty of friends and police to help me search wearing body armour). And would see no reason for contacting police unless I needed a crime number for insurance - which I could have obtained at any time.

if any burglers get in my house i will feed them to Benson :-D
and if i get the chance

i will be wacking them with a 4x4 :-D :-D

It's not what they steal that makes burglaries devastating to a victim it's the trauma of being burgled thats hard to cope with,

For the first week after the burglary i never slept and it was 3 months after before i got my first full nights sleep not to mention the cost of replacing the door and frame that he jemmied open and the cost of extra security,

It cost me thousands to make my house and perimeter as secure as possible and i felt that until i had made the changes to my property i could not return to work and as i worked away all week and could not leave my family until i had done every thing possible to keep them safe

Updated alarm to include vipers on all doors and windows plus pir in every room pressure pads at every entry point, CCTV and 6ft perimeter fence, security lighting all round the house and a large Dog

Roy

As the law currently stands, Joy, Benson would be destroyed, you would have a lengthy stretch ay Auntie Betty's pleasure and there would be an extremely expensive vehicle repair bill to pay when you finally got released.

Be interesting if Chris Grayling mentions Benson in his speech today :-D

Sue Agree with Roy. TV is immaterial - would have given young lad my telly had he asked probably - I am that soft. He obviously needed it, and I had another smaller one upstairs anyway. But in the heat of battle, you run up the road in your birthday suit to kill or maim 'em.

yippee a nice holiday at aunt Betty's
4 square meals a day and free heating
i could do with the rest
sharpened Benson's teeth

i had a naughty phone called for 6 and a half years
who even told me what i bought in the town what clothes i tried on ect
the nice policeman told me id he gets in
to hit him and keep hitting him
and i can assure you i would of :-D

Joy What a dreadful time that must have been. Somebody even watching you try clothese on!!!!

One thing I have learned from my experience is that these petty burglars are extremely clever. The amount of work that went in to stealing items probably worth just over £100 on the "I can get you a *** for £80" market was staggering. They knew house layout, where TV was exactly, escape routes, how to dispose of items "safely" for £80 or £40.

And they knew what time we retired and where we were sleeping.

Thye would have had to put a lot less effort into earning £100 legally. Plus they would have been working more social hours. Perhaps they get a thrill, an adrenalin rush. :-S

I was once told by a friend in the Police,just make sure you don,t leave any marks on them :-S and I did,nt :-D but he had a very funny walk and spoke like a boy soprano for some time after. :-D

Have heard that Grayling's speech was nothing new today. Smoke and mirrors. You still can't apply Sharia law to burglars. Tony Martin would still be sent down.

Anybody know any more?

Grayling by name, grayling by nature. Another jobs worth, I suspect.

Tony Martin deserved to be sent down. He had been heard saying he'd like to line gypsies up and shoot them before the event. According to what I heard on the news yesterday he actually lay in wait for them. And he shot them while they were running away.

Totally different situation to people who wake in the night and find burglars in their homes.

Gwynne

Some interesting posts on here, I agree with being able to protect your own property but anyone who has suffered a burglery will tell you. Its not the fact that someone thinks they have the perfect right to break in to your home and steal your things, its the fact they have been there uninvited to start of with. The sleepless nights afterwards, feeling unsafe in your own bed is a terrible feeling, to scared to go out for days afterwards incase they come back and I speak from experience.

I agree with the new arrangement, however as Gwynn says Tony Martin shot the burgler in his house as the boy was climbing out of the window trying to escape.I personally dont think it matters if he lay in wait for them, the fact remains they shouldnt of been there to start off with. Last year in my home town, a man answered the door at saturday teatime at his home, his wife and son was out shopping, he was confronted by 2 armed men there was a struggle and 1 of the men was stabbed and died, the other ran, the home owner wasnt charged although he was arrested, he is now 1 year later a broken man, he unable to return to work and last I heard on the brink of losing the family home.

I think its about time the law was changed to protect innocent victims of crimes, not to protect the criminals.

Do any of you follow the "Darwin Awards"? It's an annual list of people who do the world a favour by removing their genes from the gene pool by dying in stupid ways. Many of them are criminals

My all time favourite was a man trying to smash in the window of his wife's car using the butt of his shotgun and blew his own head off in the process.

Runner up must be the burglar crawling through the roofspce who put his torch in his mouth. The ceiling gave way and when he hit the floor the torch took his brains out.

Thief stealing cables from a tall grain store, got into the liftshaft and cut the cables at the bottom. The ten ton counterwight took an estimated three seconds to arrive.

Google Darwin Awards...it's a barrel of laughs!