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This is rather unbelievable...

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Dermot

Dermot Report 26 Jan 2013 09:14

"We want everything to be great & to stay that way. But,are any of us perfect? Sooner or later, even the most flawless folk will fail some test of strength of character". (Today's Daily Mail)

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 26 Jan 2013 08:52

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9824256/Target-culture-that-led-to-Mid-Staffs-still-exists-in-NHS-claims-top-surgeon.html

Guinevere

Guinevere Report 26 Jan 2013 06:25

No excuses for the poor care but I have to say that when my son was in hospital (which happened several times when he was very young) there was always a family member with him, day or night.

This was a long time ago but staffing was an issue, even then. The ward was full of crying babies and children and only 3 nurses on duty most of the time.

At one time a child was being very sick following an operation and when I went to fetch a nurse she tried to give me a bowl and a cloth so that I could deal with it. I said I'd take the bowl but had my own ill child to deal with and wasn't leaving him to deal with someone else's and she should phone his mother if they couldn't deal with it.

Jean

Jean Report 26 Jan 2013 01:27

the n.h.s will not be a free service for much longer. it cant cope with the extra people we now have in our country. its not our fault, i blame the past and present goverment for all the major changes we all have to face for many years to come.

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 25 Jan 2013 23:31

Just look at the stats, look at the news items it is all there.

What I meant by Florence Nightingale was that she had mostly the same people to man the war hospitals in the Crimea as previously has failed. It was the management and methods that changed, not the bulk of the junior staff. In Mid Staffordshire the failings are essentially those of the senior and middle management. Get this sorted and with nearly all the same staff you could get an excellent hospital - Addenbrooke's Hospital is an good example, being reinvented ( under private non NHS management ) and providing excellent care. By suspending the nurse it looks as if Mid-Staffs have rather missed the point - whose watch was it on and to whom was the nurse responsible ? These things don't just happen out of the wide blue sky.

Tell you what. Have any of you ever managed a half way serious budget - say over £ 1 M - or managed a biggish group of people, say over 1 000 ? CocoaJohn might have done but mostly I guess not. And thus apart from "common sense" you have not got a clue about the people dynamics of organisations. People are NOT exactly the same within an organisation as free and easy at home. Not at all.

Of course health professionals deny it, they would. I am not saying at all that they are incompetent or have bad intent more than the annoying tiny proportion of any other profession. Mostly they are not angels either nor towers of infinite strength. Moreover jobs are harder and harder to get and to hold in the NHS so crossing the middle and upper management is not a great idea.

And the agency nurses ? To whom are they accountable months and years sometimes after mistakes come to light?

Professional soldiers deny ever knocking over the wrong guys or being unpleasant to those that think may be enemies.

Policemen deny ever being other than respectful to suspects. Just a surprising number are healthy when arrested and / or taken into custody but have bad falls etc..

Bankers never dip into customer accounts or advise them badly.

Software engineers are never lazy, always bang on the button and never knowingly release code with bugs or security holes

Under the Brown/Blair regime rigid top down management was brought into all parts of the British public service. It failed and is a much bigger part of the reason why we are in such a mess today, more than the banker's ramp. In opposition Cameron pointed this out. Sadly, obsessed with "the deficit" top down mgt remains in place as it is seen as the only way to fight the deficit and any other collateral damage is ok. Except that we still have the deficit and the damage is not ok.

If only .....


Muffyxx

Muffyxx Report 25 Jan 2013 23:30

Indeed Joy but that's a whole different can of worms of course lol..*COUGHS LOUDLY*.however just because they are in the health care profession it goes without saying that it doesn't make ALL of them infallible or always indeed infused with common sense !!!

JoyBoroAngel

JoyBoroAngel Report 25 Jan 2013 22:58

not the first time a medical proffesionals neglected a child is it
where were the parents while this was going on
they should of been at the babies side to attend to its needs :-(

MrDaff

MrDaff Report 25 Jan 2013 22:41

I agree with Lolly here.

Rollo; Nurses with far too much work for any one person driven to their wits end. Result time saving mistakes such as taped on dummies.

I know a number of nurses who would (possibly physically) take you to task on that statement, as will I.

Perhaps you should dismount the steed you are currently sat upon, and await more information before 'charging in to the fray' ?


LollyWithSprinklez

LollyWithSprinklez Report 25 Jan 2013 22:25

You are possibly right Rollo turning back the clock is not the answer..so why bring Florence Nightingale into it ?

But this thread was not about the NHS overall it was about a baby having a dummy taped to its mouth

A dummy is a pacifier used to quieten a crying child ...personally I dislike them but that is neither here nor there.

We do not know who applied the tape and a member of staff has been suspended

I cant imagine any parent doing this to a baby let alone anyone in the medical proffession

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 25 Jan 2013 21:13

If that was the worst care that happened in hospitals t'would be a fine thing. Sadly it is the tip of the iceberg.

For instance do some googling for the child mortality stats in hospitals for West Yorkshire. Then do some digging through the local online newspapers ....

People just do not join up the dots of all the NHS "scandals" of the last 20 years. Most of them have the same root causes. Lack of funding, management transfixed by tick box management and financial targets, poor and none existent leadership, poor staff training, total lack of real quality control. Leadership is everything. Florence Nightingale created an army health service out of nothing. She had exactly the same staff who had previously failed.

As I said people under pressure will do what they feel they must , "common sense" goes flying out the window.

Bringing back matron would not be an answer. Wherever the NHS goes from here turning back the clock 40 years is not an option.





Kay????

Kay???? Report 25 Jan 2013 20:44

This hospital has been under serious investigation before over the high numbers of deaths.....and other things.

maggiewinchester

maggiewinchester Report 25 Jan 2013 20:30

The link is to BBC news. It's a hospital that's already in trouble for mistreating patients, so perhaps it's the highly paid managers fault. Probably more business than patient orientated, seriously involved in justifying their own job, exaggerated salary and making a profit, rather than the treatment of the patients or for that matter, the staff.

One hospital doesn't the whole NHS make!!!

**Ann**

**Ann** Report 25 Jan 2013 20:09

Well I for one would be more than upset if it had been my child. I have never heard anything like it before. What would happen if the little ones nose was blocked (as often occurs in babies) I dread to think of the outcome....what were they thinking!

LollyWithSprinklez

LollyWithSprinklez Report 25 Jan 2013 19:59

Sorry that is no excuse for poor nursing care, basic common sense tells you a baby with a dummy strapped to its face is likely to choke on it
And I am not a Daily Mail Reader

LollyWithSprinklez

LollyWithSprinklez Report 25 Jan 2013 19:54

I heard it on the news earlier and was wondering who in their right mind would do such a thing, it is almost like applying a gag...totally unbelievable

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 25 Jan 2013 19:50

Well just try and think it through instead of getting all hot and bothered at the latest Daily Mail rant.

In case you hadn't noticed the obsession of this government is to "get the deficit under control". I'll leave whether that is true or a necessary objective for another day tho' even the top Tory bigwig (literally) thinks maybe not.

The numbers are driven downwards from the Treasury through the NHS and into the budgets for the Primary Care Trust which are based on notional need mainly as defined by census stats. If the health area is stressed for any reason e.g. difficult to hire, higher rants of illness than national average, shortage of maternity staff, lots of immigrants it makes no difference - Slough, Boston, Peterboro', parts of Essex are in the same bind.

The staff are driven by the middle managers to fit their jobs into the grid, not to do their jobs properly - although same managers would deny it. Indeed they did so to the enquiry which did not accept the excuse as that would have meant admitting that Treasury policy was unrealistic.

So there you go, nurses with far too much work for any one person driven to their wits end. Result time saving mistakes such as taped on dummies.

It is no use blaming the people at the sharp end when the whole thing is falling apart.

It is perfectly true that the financial cost of running the NHS free at the point of use on the current model is not in the least way affordable. Rather than tell the electorate this - political suicide (?) - one set of panacea after another are tried out all of which have had and will continue to result in failure with the results on the front of the tabloid press and Newsnight. Any number of queries closures and mergers will not change anything.

Creating a "market" in health care will not work so long as nobody pays anything up front. It is an economic truism, the demand for anything useful perceived as free is infinite. Ask the broadband providers or look at any financial bubble. Or the M1 near Brent Cross at 8:30am.

Under the Tories the UK is shuffling towards a USA style insurance based system. That is the reason for the current carve up, it fits nicely into such a system. Google a bit and look into the links between the Tories and leading USA health providers. Labour might even go the same way as it basically cares about UNISON not the patients.

Another approach, widely used on the continent e.g. France is based on mutual non-for-profit assurance and works very well with the poor and old protected. The rich can pay for extras but the basic care is extremely good - much better than the NHS. Last year the French spent less of their GDP on health ( which does not have waiting lists) then the UK so pretty obviously things are screwed up here. Fwiw a visit to the doctor in France costs about £ 15.

The NHS is the only one of the old monopolies still in business. It is far too big to succeed in any case as neither mutual assurance or private insurance funding could cope with it (which is one reason the funding model has been left alone). For either to work it will have to be broken up. Before anybody rants at me that I do not know about health care because my granny was not a nurse .... I have a boat load of SRNs, midwives, doctors in my tree, some close rellies, so spare me that.

Although off topic the instant availability of "free" health care is a very big part of the reasons for the UK immigration problem. Moving away from free-at-poiunt-of-use would remove this irresistible magnet and to some extent alleviate the financial stress on the NHS.




 Sue In Yorkshire.

Sue In Yorkshire. Report 25 Jan 2013 19:50

It's disgusting about the poor little bairn.

Nurses that are trained in Universities not on the wards under a matron..

At least when we had hospital trained nurses they cared and did show respect for all the patients and staff.

The NHS should go back to having nurses trained back in hospitals 8 hours a day not 4 as is happening now and 4 hours in Uni.

AnninGlos

AnninGlos Report 25 Jan 2013 19:35

What sort of nurses are we getting these days? Yes I saw that on the news, unbelievable.

maggiewinchester

maggiewinchester Report 25 Jan 2013 19:05

A member of staff has been suspended after a dummy was found taped to a baby's face at Stafford Hospital.

Staffordshire Police said it happened earlier this month and the baby was four months old at the time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-21199572

It makes you wonder what sort of training or common sense the nurses have!!