General Chat

If they over-cull, won't the badger become endangered?
How can they justify culling when the badger is a protected species?

Could it be that cows are spreading the TB amongst themselves?

In reality, it would probably be cheaper to give both cows and badgers mineral licks.

So far £50m has been spent on seeing if culling is effective. What they found was the social groups split up and spread the TB further afield!!!

I'm not a great fan of badgers - nasty vicious beasties, but that's no reason to wipe them out!!

Here is a site with all the facts and figures :

http://www.bovinetb.info/index.php

There are some quite interesting things to observe.

One of them is that there is little firm data on the distribution of badgers in the UK, so much so that even for the region most affected by bovine TB (West Country) the actual survey v estimate was a major reason for the postponement of last year's cull.

What is for sure is that there are a lot of badgers all over England but the TB problem is concentrated in the south west. There are cows all over England too of course but more in the south west because the grass grows more.

It is admitted by DEFRA that at best the reduction of TB would be under 20% i.e. it would not make enough of a material difference to the economics of dairy farming in the south-west as to save the farmer's financial skins.

DEFRA refuses to talk about bulk milk price for farmers. However a fairly small rise in minimum bulk milk prices would enable farmers to cope with current levels of TB. Bulk milk means milk used for cheese, butter etc not the pint in the supermarket. Setting a floor to bulk milk prices would obviate the urgent need for a cull which is obviously going to fail and has the makings of a first rate political disaster for the Tories.

Still they are quite good at that and Patterson, an exceptionally stupid and thick skinned man is ideal to push the cull through.

The French claim ( falsely ) to have eradicated TB mainly through exterminating wild life. It is true enough that the French are keen on exterminating wild life. Every Sunday members of "La Chasse" (the Hunt) armed with cheap shotguns (often pump action) march across the countryside massacring pretty well anything they see. Landowners are powerless to stop this. Nevertheless in Normandy at least the red squirrel, wild boar, badgers and hedgehogs somehow survive in the bocage. Out in the plains of the Eure no chance. The French have managed to get wildlife eradication adopted as official EU policy and the UK is being pressurised to implement the policy with EU funding. Otherwise the French will stop buying British horse sorry correction beef. Hmmm.

What can be done ?

TB is a very nasty disease. Nasty for cows, nasty for badgers. Nasty for humans too and thankfully it was eradicated through a program of vaccination which anybody over 40 will well remember. Unfortunately it is creeping back due to a failure of political correctness with parts of the immigrant population eg Hackney being much affected.

Even so bovine TB is not a significant problem to human health even in milk as 99.99% of it is pasteurised.

The problem is that TB seriously weakens cows and their milk yield drops dramatically. As the disease is very infectious the only option is that the animals and sometimes the whole herd is put down.

Thus bumping along with the current problem is not really an option.

Massacring the badgers won't sort the problem either even if they were to be totally eradicated as other animals carryTB and the bugs lie dormant in the soil. For instance the stoat ( a red animal with very sharp teeth and lots of low cunning ) is mainly kept in check by the badger. Without badgers the stoat would have a lot more to eat and its numbers would increase dramatically. Stoats also carry TB and so removing the badgers would just bring in a new disease vector. There is no way large numbers of stoats could be controlled except by a general eradication of wildlife (the French approach ). Stoats are the major TB factor in New Zealand which does not have badgers.

Inoculation is an option and research could be speeded up. The main problem is funding and France especially is resistant to this approach. As there is no money not much happens. It is also possible to innoculate badgers though more research is needed for a cost effective approach.

There are several advantages to innoculating badgers themselves. First of all it is good for badgers :-) Secondly it would help solve the chicken and egg problem as to who is infecting who. Thirdly it avoids the French boycott threat. OTOH there is EU funding for massacres but not for research or vaccination.

All in all a serious problem which obviously has got to be sorted. UKGov and Cameron true to form have unerringly spotted the worst possible way to go.

Myself I would get the RSPCA to stop wasting millions of pounds on its fox hunting crusade and instead spend the money on an urgent program of badger vaccination starting in Somerset and Gloucestershire.

As a last word whatever is done will cost money. Dairy products will cost more. Inch by inch people will find that the bulk cheap food policies of the last 40 years have not been a good idea.

It probably boils down to money, it is probably cheaper to cull than to vacinate...I believe that every animal has a right to live...

Jules..

BOB!!!!..... this is Joy`s thread, dont push it matey... The Lady can be lethal.



:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Did not God Give mankind Dominion over all animals?(or words to that effect)

Joy, what gives us the right to say which ones live or die


To use what I believe to be an American phrase..."Might is Right"

Something I personally do not prescribe to. :-|

I'm against culling badgers Joy. There seems to be lots of disagreement about whether there's enough evidence that badgers are responsible for the spread of bovine tb and if culling even works.

It probably has Errol.


Exactly Joy :-D

Chaotic human kill far more animals of all types
than any other creature on this earth

what gives us the right to say which ones live or die :-D

now there IS food for thought.
Although I do believe the idea may have been mooted before

Badgers spread TB...so it's said they should be culled.

Humans spread allsorts of diseases...

It would be far too expensive to implement - they would have to revamp the entire beefburger manufacturing process

your not really sugesting making beef burgers out of beef are you Errol

maybe tescos could take that sugestion on board lol ;-) ;-)

i just love your idea but dont think it will catch on do you ;-) ;-)

That's it! Good thinking Joy.
We could cull all cattle and use the meat to make beef burgers for a change. Problem solved overnight.

maybe its the cattle that are giving it to the badgers and not the other way round

Joy - the issue here is not that badgers cause TB but they help in the spread of it - that is why in the article Chris kindly sourced, they are suggesting mineral cakes for both cattle AND badgers

I read it a few minutes ago Chris - very interesting indeed thank you.

once over they sugested culling hedgehogs
because they thought they suckled sleeping cows and caused TB

now its the poor badger

Errol - google the site I recommended - farmer has found that there is a deficiency in the soil caused by growing maize. He had his soil analazed and it is lacking in two minerals which cause a weakened immune system.

He took steps to adjust this and the tb has disappeared.

Pleasure Joy, I`m sure you realise its not my garden, as much as i wish it were. :-D