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now this makes perfect sense

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 15 Mar 2013 22:54

Sure it is fair that people pay something according to their means for nursing care in old age. Why on earth not?

To say it is "unfair" because another person has no assets and so does not have to pay is absurd. That is a bit like resenting somebody's bus pass while whizzing along in an Audi A6.

In any case (a) the charged is capped and (b) people can go on living in their houses. Given that the lifetime capital gain is untaxed the current proposals are more than fair, they are generous.

There are plenty of ways in which the problem of care in old age can be mitigated.

First off people could try and stay fit and eat in a more sensible way. For instance the incidence of type2 diabetes and hip replacements in older people suggests that many do not. Type 2 is NOT inherited. Overweight and/or poor diet is a major cause of needing hip and knee replacements. And so on...

There are financial ways around it too. A great many people, possibly the first ever in their family to own a property and do not consider relinquishing ownership in their lifetime in a tax efficient way. Even worse many take out "equity release" schemes which are a very bad buy.

As to a "right to leave something to my children" foo bar. If that is what you want then gift the property to your children as soon as you get to 60.

It is a general principal of taxation anywhere of "from each according to his means, to each according to need" to steal from Marx.

Given the rapidly increasing population of aged people unless taxation on people of working age is to rise any more OR government borrowing a whole lot then it is a mathematical certainty that old people with assets will find themselves contributing to their nursing care.

It is also a demonstrable fact that without some sort of tax on property, such as capital gains, death duty and payment to nursing care the distribution of wealth in a country becomes more and more lop sided over time with all sorts of negative consequences.

So it goes.

Nul points.

Brenda from Wales

Brenda from Wales Report 15 Mar 2013 22:41

Don't think it means that Sue...just to get you prepared....you are younger than my daughter so don't worry...I don't think Im old...it's all in the mind,until you want to use it to your advantage!!! :-D

Suzanne

Suzanne Report 15 Mar 2013 21:59

omg are you a senior citizen at 50? :-(

Brenda from Wales

Brenda from Wales Report 15 Mar 2013 21:58

Mine grew up in 60's and only got family allowance for 2nd can't remember how much,but wasn't a lot.
You had to limit your family to your income...no living on credit.
Different world!

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 15 Mar 2013 21:54

I did but I'm talking 1960's only had the one

~flying doctor~

~flying doctor~ Report 15 Mar 2013 21:41

Yes Ann and we didn't get fam allowance for the first child did we.

Brenda from Wales

Brenda from Wales Report 15 Mar 2013 21:40


No nursing home for us. We'll be checking into a Holiday Inn!

With the average cost for a nursing home care costing £188.00 per day, there is a better way
when we get old and too feeble.
I've already checked on reservations at the Holiday Inn.
For a combined long term stay discount and senior discount, it's £59.23 per night.
Breakfast is included, and some have happy hours in the afternoon.
That leaves £128.77 a day for lunch and dinner in any restaurant we want, or room service,
laundry, gratuities and special TV movies.
Plus, they provide a spa, swimming pool, a workout room, a lounge and washer-dryer, etc.
Most have free toothpaste and razors, and all have free shampoo and soap.
£5 worth of tips a day you'll have the entire staff scrambling to help you.
They treat you like a customer, not a patient.
There's a bus stop out front, and seniors ride free.
For a change of scenery, take the airport shuttle bus and eat at one of the nice restaurants there.
While you're at the airport, fly somewhere. Otherwise, the cash keeps building up.

It takes months to get into decent nursing homes. Holiday Inn will take your reservation today.
And you're not stuck in one place forever -- you can move from Inn to Inn, or even from city to city.
Want to see Scotland? They have Holiday Inn there too.
TV broken? Light bulbs need changing? Need a mattress replaced? No problem.. They fix everything, and apologize for the inconvenience.

The Inn has a night security person and daily room service. The maid checks to see if you are ok. If not, they'll call an ambulance . . . or the undertaker.
If you fall and break a hip, NHS will pay for the hip, and Holiday Inn will upgrade you to a suite for the rest of your life.

And no worries about visits from family. They will always be glad to find you, and probably check in for a few days mini-vacation.

The grandkids can use the pool.
What more could I ask for?

So, when I reach that golden age, I'll face it with a grin.
AIDS WARNING!

To all of you approaching 50 or have REACHED 50 and past, this email is especially for you......
SENIOR CITIZENS
ARE THE NATION'S LEADING CARRIERS OF AIDS!

HEARING AIDS

BAND AIDS

ROLL AIDS

WALKING AIDS

MEDICAL AIDS

GOVERNMENT AIDS

MOST OF ALL,

MONETARY AID TO THEIR KIDS!

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 15 Mar 2013 21:35

I, nor any of my family have ever claimed benefits from the state - always paid our way - only benefit I ever received was child allowance when my son was born

~flying doctor~

~flying doctor~ Report 15 Mar 2013 21:26

I have been a tax payer for 49 years and am still part time working. I have a right to leave to my children some of the money I have saved and put in to my home. I have never asked the state for a penny.However, people who have not worked, and spent all they got will not have to pay a penny if they go into a home. Do you call this fair Rollo. :-|

JackBunion

JackBunion Report 15 Mar 2013 21:13

Isn't NHS the answer, Rollo? Cradle to grave?

An elderly great aunt of my wife was a spinster and a teacher all her working life. Lived with her spinster sister and they both lived frugally and had a lot of savings. Sister died and aunt moved at age of 78 into a residential home near Merthyr Tydfil. Most of those savings evaporated in home costs as she died aged 96 and needed expensive nursing care latterly. And ladies living exactly the same as her were being subsidised by local council.

She did leave some money to her only two close living relatives, an elderly nephew and niece. But 20 years earlier they would have inherited a lovely house in the Vale of Glamorgan and a substantial sum of money. Seems unfair system to me. I want to hand something to my family.

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 15 Mar 2013 20:58

The UK, unlike most countries ( inc the USA ) does not tax capital gains on a principal house, whether a mansion or 1 bed flat in Leeds. Over 40 years the gains are far from insignificant such that inflation has paid of the greater part of many mortgages.

It is far from unknown for potential heirs to be dismayed that a few hundred thousand pounds of unearned dosh is going to be diluted paying for some of grannie's health care.

People will be able to stay in their homes during their lifetime and charges can be paid in other ways eg by relatives, investments etc.

I cannot see any obvious reason why taxpayers in general should pick up the tab.

Tough.

Mersey

Mersey Report 15 Mar 2013 20:47

Dont get me started Ann :-| :-|

You are defintley on my wave length on this one

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 15 Mar 2013 20:46

never have to sell your home to pay for your care - do what my parents did and what I've done

my parents signed their home over to me and my sister so effectively they had no assets to speak of and my mother ended up in a home

I have signed my house over to my son so it will never have to be sold to pay for my care should I have to go into a home - God forbid

JackBunion

JackBunion Report 15 Mar 2013 20:25

Can't fault your logic, Ann :-D Wife and siblings having to sell mil's house to continue paying her care home costs. And she is only in there (paying £700 a week) because she keeps falling over and bruising herself. Otherwise she is still quite well and able to look after herself.

Went past a new Youth Offenders Institute last week. Costs us £6,000 a week to keep each inmate happy in there :-( :-(

AnnCardiff

AnnCardiff Report 15 Mar 2013 20:18

You're a sick senior citizen and the government says they are going to sellyour house to pay for your nursing care.So what do you do?

Our plan gives anyone 65 years or oldera gun and 4 bullets. You are allowed toshoot four Politicians.

Of course, this means you will be sentto prison..... where you will get three mealsa day, a roof over your head, central heating,air conditioning and all the health careyou need!
Need new teeth? No problem.Need glasses? That's great.Need a new hip, knees, kidney, lungs or heart?They're all covered.
As an added bonus, your kids can comeand visit you as often as they do now.

And who will be paying for all of this?It's the same government that just toldyou that they cannot afford to pay foryour nursing care.
And you can get rid of 4 useless politicianswhile you are at it.
Plus, because you are a prisoner you don'thave to pay income tax.
Is this a great country or what?