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look like a reintroduction of forced labour

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

terryj

terryj Report 20 Mar 2013 16:43

government looks determined to force people to work for free at poundland etchttp://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/19/labour-rush-benefit-rebates-poundland

i have no objection to people on benefit being trained to return to work but if stores need shelf fillers let them employ them on a wage
i did shelf filling for a while and it takes a max of 1 hours training to be fully competent

AnninGlos

AnninGlos Report 20 Mar 2013 16:57

The question is, if they advertised a shelf filling job, would those on benefit apply?

AnninGlos

AnninGlos Report 20 Mar 2013 17:01

This posted five times Terry can you delete the other threads?

Muffyxx

Muffyxx Report 20 Mar 2013 17:03

Gaining experience of being at work and being trained are two very different things. Not sure how i feel about the scheme........kind of think that big names like Poundland should be paying out wages....however......working a few weeks in a shop when you are in long term receipt of benefits and able to work doesn't sound like the end of the world to me ........

terryj

terryj Report 20 Mar 2013 17:32

deleted extra posts
don't know how that happened must have a sticky button on laptop

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 20 Mar 2013 17:59

I have no objection to the unemployed being forced to work for these companies but i do object to the tax payer having to pay their wages via the benefit system, If these companies need staff then they should employ them and pay them a living wage,

This in no different to the low minimum wage and tax credit system introduced by the labour party and Gordon Brown to subsidise business whilst they make record profits and avoid paying their fare share of tax,

I thought we stopped subsidising businesses when we got rid of the nationalised industries

Roy

JoyBoroAngel

JoyBoroAngel Report 20 Mar 2013 18:48

remember the old guvvy schemes
slave labour for youths :-( :-(

Muffyxx

Muffyxx Report 20 Mar 2013 19:01

YTS?...I did one of them Joy........I was a school leaver during the recession of the 80s.......ok they didn't pay a lot.......but then you're not really a catch when you have yet to learn the skills.......at that age getting a work ethic and jobs on your CV is far more crucial than how much you're paid.

DazedConfused

DazedConfused Report 20 Mar 2013 20:35

You call these places to ask if they have any vacancies and they will tell you they have no vacancies.

But they will take on staff that they do not have to pay wages to. So no wages, insurance, tax etc., cheap labour.

as said before by myself and others just bring back the workhouse and make people break rocks and pick oakum!!!!

Move all the poor people out of their homes and turn London into a rich persons ghetto.

Ooh I get so frustrated with this lot in charge at the moment.

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 20 Mar 2013 20:45

So much for law in government in the UK then ...

Lies and illegal wars justified by secret legal advice from the Attorney General

Illegal kidnap ("rendition") on behalf of the USA ( which has cost the country dearly plus requiring the introduction of Kafkaesq secret trials )

Illegal failure to bring in stricter environmental air limits, costing the lives of thousands and discomfort for many more

Shenanigans and lies in the health service ; laws broken wholesale man-at-the-top lies in the Commons but that is ok because he is still in charge

Lies and collusion between the Treasury and the banks from the mortgage ramp all the way to the LIBOR scandal ( and now gold fixing )

Serious attempt to bring in press censorship as a result of MPs, police and some journalists breaking laws wholesale ; real objective of course is to hide the smell in future

Minimum wage except if cheap shelf stackers, agri pickers, trolley pushers needed ... there are several upwardly mobile people currently using this scheme to finance their nannies and political PAs

Retrospective laws a la carte because the country cannot afford the bill ALTHOUGH it can afford vast sums in order to finance comfortable living quarters for terrorists in case it breaks a law ...

You couldn't make it up.

Why not get the job done properly and send for Robert Mugabwe ?

Better yet why not do the same as Cyprus and get the job really well done and get rid of the deficit at the same time by handing over the country to Comrade Putin ?

Where is Signor Grillo when we need him ?

:-D

Andrew

Andrew Report 20 Mar 2013 21:51

My daughter may be going on one of these placements.

She has been unemployed for several years despite a university education.

She has been through assesments for several big chains of shops and fallen at the last hurdle....no experinence of shopwork.

So she cannot get a job because of no experince, but can't get the experince because she can't get a job.


Catch 22. At least this scheme does break the cycle even if it is unpaid, immoral slave labour.

However the people running the scheme couldn't organise the proverbial booze up in a brewery. They haven't placed a single person yet.

Andy

Dame*Shelly*(

Dame*Shelly*("\(*o*)/") Report 20 Mar 2013 22:20

my son of 18ys finish this scheme only 3 weeks ago
he was place in a cancer research shop for 4 week

must say he enjoyed it and was gutted when it finish


Andrew can i just say if your daughter has to also do this scheme
that she ask if she can also be place in a charity shop
at least then she will be donateing her time rather then doing unpayed work

good new is my son is whating to start work within the next 2 weeks with his older brother down full is it will only be 2 days a week but it is a start pluss it is night work

vera2010

vera2010 Report 20 Mar 2013 22:26

My daughter joined YOPS or YTS.in the 90s having gone on a college course but not able to get a full time permanent job. She would have been better off on the dole as she had to travel to the placement.. I insited she carried on only to make sure she did not drift as there was no other work around. She was able to add this to her CV which was a plus and went on to secure a good job.



Vera

maggiewinchester

maggiewinchester Report 20 Mar 2013 22:29


Even better -

Did you know that the government can pass legislation that:
- works retrospectively,
- exonerates them, retrospectively, of having acted unlawfully,
- goes against a High Court ruling,
- removes the right to due process, and
- has passed such a Bill in the past two days?

Just read this!!:

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06587.pdf

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 21 Mar 2013 08:37

Most good jobs in our family history did not pay much wages till 21.

An apprentice or solicitor's clerk would have earned diddly squat for first 7 years of employment. That is why men married so late, just no wages to get married with till they became journeymen or moved up ladder.

So nothing that immoral in paying very little wages til 21, encouraging them to take further education etc.

But what seems very wrong to me is that jobs now are very here today gone tomorrow. Very part time. Very unsatisfying. I think I would be happy to earn £30pw in my late teens if I knew I would be earning £300pw at 30 doing something useful.

DazedConfused

DazedConfused Report 21 Mar 2013 10:24

Sadly here in London that kind of wage would not allow someone to live on. It would barely cover the rent in many London Boroughs, and as there is little chance of council housing........

Average weekly rent in London is £200.00 pw +, then you have to furnish your home, pay for utilities, council tax, clothing, food, fare for work. Not even remotely feasible. Unless living at home and parents subsidising that person.

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 21 Mar 2013 10:27

There is an ocean of difference between being paid not much at all if anything (*) in a job leading to useful professional or vocational qualification and what amounts to forced labour at work with no experience value whatsoever.

Apprenticeships were not a a reason for marrying late. A joiner for instance would leave school between 12 and 14. His apprenticeship would last 5-7 years after which as a new qualified guy wages would be quite good - much better than a labourer and more than enough to rent a house and start a family in his early 20s. Compare that to today ...

Until not so long ago the parent often had to pay the firm who took on an apprentice or at least put up a bond. Wages ? Bed & board + pocket money.

Far more serious though is upturning Appeal Court decisions through retrospective law which drives a coach and horse through the concept of government by laws. :-(


JustJohn

JustJohn Report 21 Mar 2013 11:15

Rollo. Sorry. Just to explain, I meant the man had to be on a good wage and have a few bob before he got married usually. So that was often 23 earliest and sometimes later, rather than starting a family in his teens with no trade and little prospects.

One of my ancestors (born 1649) married his master's daughter in 1670 just before he finished his apprenticeship. Master was ok about it apparently and I don't think daughter was eating for two, but my 6 x gt grandfather and his young wife were both ex-communicated from the parish church. They did baptise children there, so must have been a very temporary ex-communication. But a serious blight on their character and respectability in the town nevertheless. To go to church but be refused the wine and bread :-( :-(

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 21 Mar 2013 12:01

I’m in two minds about this – any genuine work experience is good for the CV. If Poundland are paying the SS the minimum wage, or the cost of the JSA, then fair enough, but not as rolling ‘free’ labour.

The young lady who was volunteering at the museum now has a part time paying job….as an assistant on a Supermarket shop floor! Would she have got that if she hadn’t been able to put Poundland on her CV?

It’s not only the chain stores who are taking advantage of ‘free’ labour. As some may remember, our youngest has recently completed an MSc in Psychology and would love to get a job as an Assistant Psychologist which is a training position.
They are like hens teeth. Some of the jobs which are advertised on the NHS website are asking for Interns ie free labour, or part paid, part voluntary. Sometimes they lead to paid employment, but not always. There are examples in other professional sectors. There aren’t many parents who are willing or able to support their children post University.

At her graduation ceremony (for all MSc/MA graduates) the Chancellor made a point of saying, get a job, any job or work experience, and expand your horizons as you are unlikely to find one which perfectly fits your qualifications.

JoyBoroAngel

JoyBoroAngel Report 21 Mar 2013 12:17

a friend of ours ran a pet shop
and he used to take YTSs on
they worked free for 6 months
i said to him do you intend to take any of there YTSs on
he said dont be daft i get them free so why should i
at the end of the six months i just get another one

he wasnt very happy when i gave him a flea in his ear
and a lecture on using people :-D