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Staying in education or training

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


CupCakes Report 24 Apr 2013 11:35

I think it is a good idea - near where I live there is a large school where so many of the girls have got themselves pregant and never worked.

I know a whole family where all the children have never worked but irronically the parents do.


Porkie_Pie Report 24 Apr 2013 09:02

Terryj, I think the later is more likely to be the case,



terryj Report 24 Apr 2013 08:58

on tv this morning i saw that there are now more jobs that require a degree than those that don't
whether the jobs really need a degree or its just their way of sorting out the "best" they didnt say


maggiewinchester Report 23 Apr 2013 23:57

Fully agree, Rose.
The poor things are now 'educated' to answer test papers set by the government (or their cronies).

Not a real education at all.

It shocked me, when I was at Uni 13 years ago. The tutor (of Education Studies) asked the mixed bunch of BEds (those training to be teachers) and BA's (those just doing a degree) what they thought was more important - a love of learning, or being able to teach the National Curriculum. Every one of the BA's said 'A love of learning'.
Every BEd said 'To be able to teach the National Curriculum'.
So, there were these potential teachers, fully focussed on obeying the Government's processess, not caring about the background or related interests..
They would have no idea on future careers (school, college, Uni, teacher) having had very little life outside the education system, and no idea of anything beyond what they needed to know to pass exams. What hope the children?

Scary :-S

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 23 Apr 2013 22:37

Just in conversation with a 17 year old lol, one of the things mentioned is that some of his peers are really unaware of what they need to do to get to where they want to be... eg some seem to think that when they walk out at the end of their time there (tech ' college) they will walk straight into the high paid jobs available at top level in that field, without first having some working experience.

Or they fail to show up at presentation evenings to hear from tutors and employers what options will be available ( Uni', apprenticeships etc) after their course ends...and they will soon need to decide on those options.

i think perhaps there is a gap in 'connecting' what they have done at school with the realities of the 'workplace' ? Too much emphasis on actually getting qualifications and not enough emphasis on what they then do with them work wise?

I think the more options open to young people in the last 2 or 3 years of schooling the better, not everyone knows what they want to do, the more things that can be 'tried out' so to speak , the better chance of the young person finding out what they enjoy, and can do well and would want to work at.


Porkie_Pie Report 23 Apr 2013 22:33

Thanks for the explanation Maggie,

I said controversial because I was expecting a flurry of objections to my post,

I'm no expert on the education system and just said what I thought from my own observations over time.

As you say the powers that be appear to think that academic is best which is OK apart from the fact we carnt all be rocket scientists and brain surgeons

Some one has to do the Manuel jobs, even the ones that require a skills like plumbers and brick layers



maggiewinchester Report 23 Apr 2013 22:14

Not controversial at all, Roy.
Grammar schools were for the 'academic' - though more girls than boys passed the 11+, and the ratio in Grammar schools was 50/50.
Then there were the Secondary schools. Not quite so academic, BUT after CSE's children could go on to do GCE's.
The Technical schools - of which not enough were built, so the system didn't quite work - were for the least academic, and were meant to provide 'basic' education (ie reading, writing and arithmetic) with a pre-apprenticeship learning/trial for future apprenticeship.
So, everyone should have been catered for,
Comprehensives weren't meant to be wholly academic, they were introduced because of the so-called 'elitism' of the Grammar School (introduction of the 'every one can win' syndrome?) but the introduction of league tables divisively ensured they had to become so, thus depriving over half of the children of any schooling enjoyment.

Problem then, as it is now, is that the 'powers that be' appear to think that 'academic' is best, and everyone should have the chance to be academic. Mainly because they haven't lived in the real world :-|


Porkie_Pie Report 23 Apr 2013 21:06

Maggie, Det, Warning, I'm going to be controversial now,

Government have changed the education system in this country over the last couple of decades, having had an education system that identified the intellectual student and those less able "11plus" was controversial and claims of double standards and having a two tier system,

But it worked better than the one we have now,

To qualify that statement with regard to the less able?

Those who failed their 11 plus where educated for the work place as shop floor employees, and also gave them another bite at the cherry whilst at school by teaching Woodwork, metal work, Gardening among other Hands on skills, those that excelled in these subjects often went on to get apprenticeships and later on to run and or own their own companies

Where are we now? We are told we don't have a skilled workforce so we need migrant workers?

Chickens coming home to roost I think.

I honestly believe everyone has ability, The difficulty is identifying their strengths and weaknesses, Utilise their strength whilst building on the weaknesses



maggiewinchester Report 23 Apr 2013 20:37

...and boy, aren't they different when they find they CAN do something and are useful to society. The change is immense - suddenly they are brimming with confidence :-D :-D


+++DetEcTive+++ Report 23 Apr 2013 20:12

Exactly Maggie.

The ones you and I remember found 'paper learning' so difficult even with extra support. They couldn't wait to get out into the big wide world and use their hands to earn a living.


maggiewinchester Report 23 Apr 2013 19:14

Actually, DET, you've reminded me, when I was a Learnng Support Assistant in a secondary school, about 15 years ago, I identified 10 children in the first MONTH, who had gone through primary school unable to read/write properly, and who needed to be 'statemented' - ie given simplified lessons to do (same stuff, just easier to understand) and extra lessons in reading & writing.
After 10, I was told to stop.

How did I find them? Just watched their behaviour, then chatted to them. Simple test - do they know the months before and after their own birthday. Do they know the months of the year in order?
What day of the week is it, what was it yesterday, what will it be tomorrow. Days of the week in order?
Every 11 year old should be able to name the weeks of the year & days of the week. It's so sad to think these children, if not given extra help will spend the next 5 years of their life in utter misery, not really understanding what's going on. Unable to properly join in, and believing it's their fault, not realising it's the primary school that should notice, and work on, their problems.
Hardly any wonder they misbehave is it?


AnnCardiff Report 23 Apr 2013 18:22

I think children should start school a year later and finish a year later than they do now - also, bring back apprenticeships and meaningful courses that will intrest young people

And also start teaching basic manners and courtesy


+++DetEcTive+++ Report 23 Apr 2013 18:20

Unfortunately, there is the small minority of students forced to stay in education in year 11 who don’t want to be there. They are the ones who are disruptive and unsettle everyone else.

The reasons for their poor behaviour could be many things including
- They aren’t academic and have poor literacy/numeracy skills
- Think that they are adults and want to be treated as such
- Fed up with the regimented discipline of school….not that they realise that discipline is expected in the work place.

For some, the slightly more relaxed regime of Technical Colleges can suit even though they do still have to toe the line, but it is not for everyone.

20 hours work with day release to college? They’ll be lucky! Where exactly are these Employers or Apprenticeships going to come from? If they are successful, they may resent having to return to classroom based education.

Even though this scheme is probably being sold as a means to increase the qualifications for young people, realistically it’s keeping many off the unemployment statistics.

If a student wants to stay in education, unless their parents desperately need any SS allowance they can claim, they’ll already be making their own plans to stay on in to Post 16 or applied for a course at College.


maggiewinchester Report 23 Apr 2013 17:39

Agree Roy.
If a person has something of interest to do, something to look forward to, they'll make it.


jax Report 23 Apr 2013 17:39

My daughter is in year 11 and she has her place at college sorted for the next 2 years as staying on at her school was not an option.

She seems to have her life mapped out and what she plans to do with it, unlike her elder sister who left at 16 and if she could get out of working she did


Porkie_Pie Report 23 Apr 2013 17:12

That's a very low opinion on the youth of today Terryj,

The majority are hard working and respectful who just want a chance to get on in life,

Not all young people expect the welfare state to look after them


Edit, If your statement is correct then shame on the adults/parents who were responsible for their upbringing


terryj Report 23 Apr 2013 17:06

i can just see these kids turning up in class with a hangover or cant come in today the babys sick
god help the poor teachers it must be murder dealing with 16 yr olds that dont want to be there 18 yr olds looks like an impossible task


PatinCyprus Report 23 Apr 2013 15:21

All of those plus a community based project. :-)

♥†۩ Carol   Paine ۩†♥

♥†۩ Carol Paine ۩†♥ Report 23 Apr 2013 13:01

until 17 or 18years old

In England, if you’re currently in year 11 you must stay in some form of education or training until the end of the academic year when you turn 17.
If you’re currently in year 10, then you have to stay in some form of education or training until the end of the academic year when you turn 18.
This doesn’t have to mean staying in school, it can be:
• full-time education, eg at a school or college
• an apprenticeship
• full-time employment (over 20 hours a week) combined with part-time education or training

What opportunities should be also be offered to all children/young people between 16 – 18years, to prepare them for adulthood?
Basic army training
Basic First Aid
Driving Skills/vehicle maintenance
Basic Cooking/budgeting