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Is it time we came out of the EU ?

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

GHeather

GHeather Report 9 May 2013 18:00

What do you think about the EU ? Time to come out... ?

GHeather

GHeather Report 9 May 2013 18:02

I think the EU has become too big for it boots, and a massive gravy train, that needs to be stopped! The money we pump into it every year, amazing!

InspectorGreenPen

InspectorGreenPen Report 9 May 2013 18:08

How much exactly do we pump in each year?

GHeather

GHeather Report 9 May 2013 18:13

A MASSIVE AMOUNT InspectorGreenPen!

ChrisofWessex

ChrisofWessex Report 9 May 2013 18:16

YES

Robert

Robert Report 9 May 2013 18:17

The problem is, too many decisions are made by unelected people.

Each Member state is different with it's own culture but the EU wants us all to be the same, not always the best but often the worst.

Muffyxx

Muffyxx Report 9 May 2013 18:20

I think it's high time those who are under 50 are given the chance to have a say....time and time again governments of both colours have signed treaties giving away more and more power and no one has thought to ask the electorate if this is what they want.

If there is a referendum.......and I hope there will be.......I will vote to leave the EU and be very glad to do so.

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 9 May 2013 18:21

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union

"Germany, as the biggest economy, is also the biggest contributor, Poland is the biggest receiver. The UK contributes much more than it receives too, about €4.7bn more. Why the gap? The UK is a rich country and the EU points out that although it spends less in the UK than the national contribution, the British economy gains much more from access to European markets and contracts. UK exports to the EU were worth nearly €12bn in September alone."

As I read it , we pay 4.7bn more than we get back in subsidies. To withdraw would mean that this and the full amount of our contribution would stay in this country...BUT we would then have to ensure that we didn't lose those exports to EU countries...could that be done?

Muffyxx

Muffyxx Report 9 May 2013 18:33

It can Rose........Norway and Switzerland are proof of that !

Rambling Rose

Rambling Rose Report 9 May 2013 18:46

Well I think the same Muffy, if our products are good enough then they will still be bought whether we are in the EU or not.

My only concern is that being in the EU has given 'us' some influence over decisions, if we no longer have a 'voice' there will we nevertheless be affected by decisions made without us?

Porkie_Pie

Porkie_Pie Report 9 May 2013 19:05

It's a misconception that countries within the eu would not buy goods from the UK if we left, All eu countries trade all over the world and always have,

If Germans want to buy a British product they will whether we are members of the club or not "We don't buy BMW cars because the eu said we have too" We live on a planet called the World not a planet called Europe

I am fed up with the eu but i would be happy to stay if they stopped dictating and allowed our elected government of the day do as the electorate want them to do, Its called a democracy, nothing democratic about being told what our employment law have to be or who can stay in our country when we want rid, or what shape a cucumber or banana has to be, The list is endless

Bring back any powers that previous UK leaders has signed away and if the eu don't like it they no where they can stuff it

Roy

GHeather

GHeather Report 9 May 2013 19:11

I like your style: Porkie_Pie! :-D

Muffyxx

Muffyxx Report 9 May 2013 19:14

I think increasingly Rose the EU is moving towards being the federal states of Europe ...less to do with trade and far more to do with power.

If that is the case ..and,if, as I suspect, this country will have no appetite for it.....our voice within will eventually become redundant anyhow....I'm happy to let them get on with it and row our own boat regardless.

GHeather

GHeather Report 9 May 2013 19:19

I agree Muffyxx. :-)

RolloTheRed

RolloTheRed Report 9 May 2013 19:57

Were it so simple ... UKIP et al never have any real answer to a very basic question. So we leave the EU. Then what ?

A renewal of the democratic mandate for membership would be a good thing and for those under 55 important.

Norway gets the full run around from the EU without any chance to have any say whatsoever - some there call it government by telex. Even Switzerland has had to bend its knee.

The amount we pay looks a lot but is very small as a proportion of government spending - well under 1%. (*) That is why at the end of the day the national governments are in control, it is they who control taxation. Frau Merkel has been sharply reminded of that by the Bundestag.

(*) £ 14 bn for a trillion pound economy. It barely registers.

It is simplistic to see the EU as some sort of profit and loss account it doesn't work like that at all. A far more accurate description of it is as a giant networking opportunity. For it to work for a country then it has to be worked at, the benefits don't come automatically.

The UK has been very good at using EU networking both for direct trade and services and leveraging the EU relationships for trade with China and so on.

As an example BMW has built up a huge supply network for high value car parts in the UK e.g. gearboxes. This would not have happened without the EU. Overall employment in motor manufacturing and allied trades in the UK is at an all time high. Without the EU network this would have been impossible.

Another example are BAe and Rolls Royce, major suppliers to AirBus. I could go on and on ...

Like it or not the world we live in has become one of large powerful trading blocs - the EU, NAFTA, China. Even the BRICS and Japan are finding life outside one of these blocs difficult.

Any notion that UK political influence would amount to more than a row of beans outside of the EU has a very close relationship with Rosy Scenario.

Of course the EU looks messy, despite daft reports in the redtops and from Mr Faraje it is very democratic with endless lobbying and trade offs. Democracy is always messy. Those who think the EU will become a federated state are wrong, there is simply no desire from it within the major states.

The UK has shown itself a smooth slick operator. French has been displaced by English. Free market concepts have replaced the dirigism of the French. It has been able to stay out of the €uro. It has blocked the French desire for an EU army to supplant NATO.

Why the heck should we leave ? Better to go on using our energies to push it into the shape we want.

Left on their own France + Germany + Spain might well create a hostile hegemony of the kind which Britain fought tooth and nail to prevent from the wars of Marlborough, Waterloo to the two great wars of the C20.

Leaving in a petulant fit would be stupidity of the highest order. That the idea is being contemplated says a lot about the lack of intellectual rigour on the back benches of the Conservative Party.

For what its worth I held a senior contract in the EU for three years and know something of how it works. It is a shame that for the most part our journalists make little effort to report what goes on or that so many of our MPs are so woefully ignorant on the subject so close to their hearts.

Most likely we will have a referendum at some point.
Most likely when the pros and cons are totted up the UK will remain a member.

Clegg is an idiot to block such a referendum. In the Labour party Mandelson among other eminences grises is very much in favour.



Muffyxx

Muffyxx Report 9 May 2013 23:16

I think the day when the EU demanded that Cypriots' bank accounts were raided signified a very slippery slope.......one which I would fight tooth and nail for the UK not to tread.

However bad things appear here you only have to see the unemployment figures in Greece and Spain to see how not being able to devalue one's currency can have an effect.......and ok yes that's just eurozone countries of which we're not a part.....but there were a LOT of voices shouting for it back in the day......yelling that we were being left behind...without a voice when it was introduced....same argument I'm hearing about leaving Europe today.

I've been a euro sceptic in the days where I was accused of all sorts for being such.

...and I don't see myself changing anytime soon. A say in it is all i'm asking for.......the people will decide ultimately.........or should decide.

GHeather

GHeather Report 10 May 2013 00:21

Loads of interesting replies, brill! Thanks. :-D