General Chat

I think Y Farteg is acceptable, but I don't live there. It is pronounced Uh - Var - Teg and has nothing to do with wind and eggs.

Just looked on Torfaen's entry on Wikipedia in Welsh. About 15 villages in total within Torfaen with their Welsh name only. It has Y Farteg as one of the villages, but also has New Inn and Griffithstown as two others. So assume no one locally ever sees Y Dafarn Newydd (translation of New Inn) or Tre Gruffydd (Griffithstown) on any signs or documentation :-S

It's a 'non word' then in any language, so how can it be translated?

It's things like this that annoy me, some eejit making a decision which is un-needed and wholly unwanted by the very people that are supposed to be being represented by these 'official bodies'...and it is imo the very petty things like this that devalue the valid efforts to preserve the language and encourage people to use it.

I totally agree with AnnC and Lynda. :-D :-D Nothing to see here - move along please.

This is the current policy.

"The Welsh Government's position on place names as shown on road signs within its jurisdiction is outlined in its Welsh Language Scheme, which, in section 6.9 Traffic signs, states:

"The signs for which we are responsible (mostly motorway and trunk road signs) will be bilingual. Signs which are in English only at the moment will be made bilingual when they are replaced.... When both languages are included on one sign with one language above the other, the order in which the languages appear will follow the practice adopted by the local authority where the sign is located."

The latter proviso applies because local authorities have discretion over the forms used on local highway signs. In the predominantly Welsh-speaking areas of Wales, the Welsh form of the name is usually given first; in other areas, the English name is usually given first."

This policy even applies in Monmouthshire and Flintshire which are right on the border and not that favourable to the Welsh language. So you go to Chester above Caer below if you travel east from Flintshire and to Bristol above and Bryste below if you travel east from Monmouthshire.

what it means Rose is that there is a group of people who need to get a life and find something better to do :-D

as far as I can see there is not a meaning of or literal translation for the word...what does it mean? anything?

My contribution is just.......... :-D

UKIP may have a problem. They are bilingual and use the name Plaid Annibyniaeth y Deyrnas Unedig in their Welsh and bi-lingual literature.

On their website recently that became “Plaid Annibyniaeth y Du” (literally, the Black Independence Party).

Capped up DU stands for an abbreviation of Y Deyrnas Unedig – the Welsh translation of “UK” – but “Du”, which the website used, translates as “black”. :-D :-D

And residents of Wales are more variegated ;-)

Is it not true though that there are words and phrases in English that cannot be translated into Welsh, but which are still commonly used in Wales?

I know from listening to the inhabitants ( and other sources ;-) ) that there are...so why should the village name have to be in Welsh also? Unless of course there is to be a nationwide ban on any English phrase being used if there is no acceptable translation into Welsh?

Bilingualism is the law in Wales, SueC. Feet can be stamped as much as villagers in Varteg want, but Y Farteg is how they spell their village in the Welsh language.

Not sure which party you vote for if you don't like bilingualism. All 4 major partries in Wales (Tories, Labour, Lib Dem and Plaid Cymru) support the Welsh Language Board and bilingual policy. And these constant digs are quite funny and I am sure people get aeriated about bilinguism, but not likely to change Government policy unless everyone in Wales votes UKIP at next election.

The point is: the villagers do not want the name change. Welsh Language Board stamping their size twelves (at least) all over local residents' wishes.

Consider also the cost, in these financially difficult times, if I paid my dues to Torfaen I wouldn't be too happy with money being set aside to change all the computerised records, paper records, booklets, telephone book entries etc., over the coming years.

Absolutely nuts!

yes Ann i think they must be pmsl xx :-D :-D

My pet beef a\bout bilingual road signs is in Bridgend area. Somebody must have been having a laugh, particularly with new roads. One has beautiful Welsh name of Heol y Ddwynant. Underneath we have the translation into English of "Two Stream Road" :-D :-D

And Penisarwaun near Caernarfon is not Penis-ar-waun, as some would like to think. It is Pen - isa'r-waun. The head (snigger) of the lower moorland. And "is" is pronounced "ees".

I remember being told by a master in school that every time Shakespeare wrote "pen" it was short for a longer word. But the Elizabethan reporting finger would have got his plays banned had he not written "pen". Was my teacher right?

Doubt it, AnnC. Certainly my knowledge is not extensive.

I must agree that sometimes this can be silly. Isn't there a village near Cardiff called Sully that is something like "Sili" in Welsh?

If Varteg has to have a Welsh spelling as well, then to my mind there is no argument - Y Farteg is pronounced same way and no V in Welsh. No idea of meaning but teg sounds like "fair" or "beautiful" and "var or y far" may be some sort of local landmark.

I just wonder if we ought to change all these English places names like Lower Piddletrenthide, Upper Peover, Trotters Bottom because some immature people like a snigger :-S

John (in the lovely little Rhondda village of Rhechian)

so Joy, the people who live there are called "W*****s"?

now I wonder if someone with extensive Welsh knowledge will come on here and give us chapter and verse on Welsh names ;-)

theres a place in Germany called W***

I dont think I would like to live there to ;-) ;-)

hmmm

There's a town in Austria called *ucking. Honest!

You can guess what the * is.

And a town in Ireland called Effin!

:-D

Y farteg
rather live there than

M*n*e, village in Azerbaijan
M*n*e, village in Lithuania
;-) ;-)

controversy it seems:

Residents in a Welsh village are upset at plans to rename the town Y Farteg, claiming it would be humiliating and leave them the butt of people's jokes.

Welsh language campaigners have called for the town of Varteg to be renamed, saying in the local language there is no letter V, making the current name incorrect.

Villager Sioned Jones, 42, told Wales Online: "Just imagine how embarrassing it will be to have the word fart in your village's name never mind being followed by egg.

"I'd be humiliated every time I told someone my address.

"Everyone will be laughing at us and coming to get photographed next to the street signs."

Fellow villager Ray Leyshon, 62, added: "Can you imagine the bus going past and some naughty schoolboy shouting: 'You are going to Fart Egg'? It is just a bad joke."

Many road signs in Wales show place names in both Welsh and English - for example visitors to the country's capital will be greeted with Cardiff and Caerdydd.

However, some Welsh sounding places have had their names anglicised - before eventually reverting back to their proper and more traditional spelling.

And the 1,000-strong population village of Varteg, near Pontypool, is now facing a consultation by Torfaen Council on its name.

If Y Farteg was adopted it would not replace Varteg - with both names being shown on local signs.

But the idea has been slammed by Torfaen MP Paul Murphy.

He said: "Why should people in Varteg be told how to spell their own place name?

"Varteg is not an English word so translating it is totally unnecessary.

"It's a name that reflects our rich history and culture in the Eastern Valley, with its Welsh language and English language influences.

"I'm supportive of sensible steps to help the Welsh language, but this is not the way to achieve that - it will only fuel resentment."

A Torfaen council spokesman said changing the name to Farteg would be "inappropriate".

But the village could still have its name changed to Y Farteg and locals are now being consulted about this.

A council spokesman said: "After discussion with the local councillor the Farteg was considered inappropriate and was not adopted at the time.

"The Welsh language commissioner has proposed the alternative name Y Farteg, upon which the residents of the Varteg community will be able to express their views."

However, the Welsh Language Commissioner supported the change.

In a letter to the council, the commissioner's office recommended Y Farteg should be the standard form in both languages.

Its guidelines for standardising place names says if the difference between the Welsh and English forms was only one or two letters, then a single form should be used - with preference given to the Welsh form.

It also said Varteg should not be adopted as the single form of the name "as this is a corrupt and non-standard spelling of the original Welsh name".

Torfaen council said its consultation came following a three-week public consultation in January, which considered 22 Welsh place names across Torfaen.

The council will start its consultation on the name shortly and an event will be held in the community to gauge local views.


What made me giggle was the statement that 'it would be the butt of peoples' jokes).....NO......really?