General Chat

It was the huge shock from the Brexit vote that greatly disturbed the mind & playing ability of the England team.

The latest brexit pledge, that of reformed fishing rights and quotas, has now been abandoned by Leave. Another mistake.

In the cold light of Tuesday afternoon this is where we are:

(a) Tory party upside down and inside out
(b) Labour Party in its death throes, not a pretty site, move along nothing you'd want to see
(c) UKIP threatening street action
(d) both Leave and Remain politicians talking about all sorts of variations on "recognising the will of the people" but negotiating for as many European goodies as poss even if it means immigration at or near current levels
(e) despite (d) the rest of the EU refuse any negotiations unless S50 Leave is enabled It is vital to understand this most players refuse to do so at least publicly
(f) agreement at the end of S50 negs can be vetoed by a QM. Spain intends to regain the Rock, Poland to place its citizens on a par with the UK within the UK for example.
(g) enabling S50 will cause the sky to fall in and a return to rule by IMF (reme,ber 1979 and Jas Callaghan ? )
(h) "the people's will" was a narrow result based on a a full set of porkies and unsubstantiated assertions. Whether that is still "the people's will" or will be in three months time is doubtful.
(j) parliament, what is left of it, remains "sovereign" but would rather like somebody else to do the dirty work. Brave Dave has run away, Bojo is still in cloud cuckoo land so who ?
(k) meanwhile Corbyn's plot advances in good order. He intends for the PLP social democrats to resign themselves out of existence being replaced by placemen and Trotsky activists from Momentum. Next 4 years of hell under a brexit Tory government with lots of strikes and trouble bringing in a govt of the far, far left which would not have to worry about the EU and rubbish such as democracy or property rights. Of course Corbyn voted leave why wouldn't he?
(l) unless somebody wakes up fast we are all going to hell in a handbasket.

Have leave campaigners changed their tune?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36641390

In politics MPs are obliged to praise their leader to the hilt and show God-like respect when questioned about the leader’s competence. However, as soon as things go pear-shaped, the much maligned incumbent is manoeuvred towards the exit.

There was nothing wrong in Boaty McBoatface except they didn't listen to the popular vote in the end....oh is that what will happen now in theory Parliament can ignore it......

In a certain part of the UK some years ago, there was a slogan which went like this:- 'Vote early & vote often'.

Not sure whether this helped politics along.

I think a great many of those votes would have come from the younger, better educated and more highly skilled members of the population, as they have labelled themselves, Sharron :-)

I am still laughing at a conversation I had over the weekend. A friend and their OH didn't know which way to vote, but decided they must accept their responsibility to cast their vote. They decided to use one for leave and one for remain!! I asked which way she had voted and she said she didn't know - it was a postal vote so he had done both. :-0 :-D

I wonder how wise it was to trust a population who had voted to call their polar exploration vessel Boaty McBoatface to decide anything of any importance.

" I must state the UK had turned their back on us Aussies, New Zealanders Canadians and all others of the British Commonwealth., any one wanting to work & live in the UK, were told they could not unless earning 75,000 GBP or in Aust $152.000 a few mths back when i checked...which is impossible! even for a Teacher or working for an Insurance Co. or Bank. "

The salary requirement is £ 35 000 which is set so as to allow junior professionals but is a big obstacle for those not in one of the special occupations such as nursing. The salary bar is far too high and apart from the sheer injustice of it the bar is denying the UK some great people.

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2015-07-07/uk-tier-2-visa-immigrants-must-earn-35000-to-settle-from-april-2016

Nevertheless although I continue to be a strong supporter of remain I have always thought the restrictions on people coming from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, southern Africa unfair and unjust.

When the UK joined I thought and still think that Canada, OZ and NZ could have been added to the Common Travel Zone ( inc right to reside ) along with Eire. Quite why that has never happened I know not. Instead restrictions have been tightened which is why "more and more of us" is actually "less and less of use" around Barons Court Nevern Square and so on.

If "Leave" sorts out some sort of deal with the EU and then adds these three countries to for free movement then all the downside will not have been for nothing. As it is I have not set my hopes very high as the person who set the current bar is Teresa May.

If I said everything I think about this matter I'd probably be arrested so I won't. Suffice to say I can see no logic in denying families the right to be together and do business across what in many ways are artificial frontiers. All of the other founding EU states were canny enough to look after their own people, not us.Just look at today. Romania issues passports a la carte to anybody from Moldavia who wants one, Poland does the same for the Ukraine.

Let's see:

promise: immigration free movement to be controlled ; by inference UK allowed to open the gates where it wishes to
actuality: no change ( price of admission to the single market )
promise: huge amounts of money for the NHS,, farmers, fishermen
actuality: misunderstanding, nos such undertaking
promise: the UK will make its own trade agreements around the worled free of the EU bureaucracy
actuality: China says rhubarb, rhubarb flat panic in both the Tory and Labour parties as the £ crashes

Boris makes a speech today that "the UK will continue to be within the single market, free movement will continue, closer and closer cooperation with the EU including Erasmus etc etc BUT the UK would not be subject to European Court etc" ... well if he succeeds in that bldy good show but I fear he is in the land of the very large cuckoo.

ho hum

And the leave voters wont be making any future decisions on how the country is run,those will still be made by those with bums on seats. ;-) :-D :-D.

I voted to remain - not for any great political reason, it simply felt right for me. I am not 'sulking' but, like many others, I am genuinely concerned as to where the final result will now take us.


I looked at both campaigning sides and, what I saw from Brexit, made me realise that there was not a single person on that team that gave me confidence for the future, in fact, I found the whole set up rather unnerving.


Now that the choice to leave has been made, I know I made the right decision for myself. I am getting the depressing impression that the Leave team, after all their rhetoric, are now panicking because they do not know what to do next.


It's all very well saying that 'we must pull together' as a country, but they are empty words - the majority of us have will have very little input into what will actually go on and what decisions are made.

The bed has been made......now it must be lain on.

Sometimes democratic elections & referendums produce unexpected results.

Waiting for political messiahs to save us is futile. Give the long-suffering UK citizens a break.

It all boils down to the fact that the "remainers" had a pretty good idea what they were voting for after so many years as EU members whereas the "leavers" have no idea what the future will hold.

Susan wiv .............

I'm beginning to get a feeling of being persecuted ..... that's the 3rd RR in a week :-D :-D

Welcome Poppycat

Oh dear Sylvia......I read your post.....nothing much I could see that needed RRing.....not to worry :-(

Hello To All!!

I am sitting on the fence so to speak, from the other side of the world 'Down Unde'r!
i'm interested in all this, as my parents are English born, i'm 1st Gen.Aussie.
My Father was in the British Army almost 10yrs fought to give all, their Freedom as did his Uncles in ww1, 2 lost their lives at the Somme.....

I was ecstatic when UK had the votes to 'LEAVE'! I see the EU as a' Dictatorship' !
I would not like Aust.....to be under CHINA would be communist they own a lot of our land and mining, Dairy Farms etc.. as it is, our Govt too friendly.

I have read a lot about the EU & where it wants to lead, its scary really 'A One World Order' No Way!! No one knows who's actually running the Show in 'Brussels' Faceless Men of the Billionaire types! getting richer day by day....
It seems mostly the younger set are for it.......who cannot see further that the Freedom to work & Travel..........I wish they could wake up & see the reality of where its actually leading...........and Yes! it is about Migration of displaced peoples, but Europe cannot House, Feed, Provide for the 'Millions' it has already caused chaos with good law abiding peoples who just want their Country, Culture to remain without being accosted, .....its so unfair on them!

I cannot see the EU bending Rules to suit 'Scotland' they had their chance almost 2yrs back, wanting to break away from UK but the Vote seemed to fly back in their face ....they voted to stay !
They cannot have it all!! They lost their chance, now they want another,Tough Luck!....i have Scottish rellies do not know how they voted......the Minister, is very young has a lot to learn!

All you young people out there! Wake Up! 'Freedom' your Country has got out when the going is good, it will be tough for some time.....someday you will look back and be very Thankful when you see what is happening in Europe!

Don't forget all WW1 WW2 men & women who lost their lives, was to make sure their Country & peoples would have the 'Freedom' that other Countries do not have, you may not get it now, but someday you will!

I must state the UK had turned their back on us Aussies, New Zealanders Canadians and all others of the British Commonwealth., any one wanting to work & live in the UK, were told they could not unless earning 75,000 GBP or in Aust $152.000 a few mths back when i checked...which is impossible! even for a Teacher or working for an Insurance Co. or Bank.
The UK under the EU preferred bring in Migrants to work cheaply...or the undereducated.......So! So! Wrong! We felt as though we were kicked in the back!

I wish everyone..... 'All The Best Of British Luck'!
:-) :-D :-)

:-D :-D :-D :-D

struck again!

someone must not have liked my comment re the petition to have another referendum :-D

What I find annoying is how party poitics got in the way of rational discussion.
We had "the Government view" supporting Remain - even though the Cabinet i.e. the ruling Executive, was divided on the issue.
The Labour party came out, albeit rather late and half heartedly in favour of Remain, even though some shadow ministers took the opposite view and the result showed that grass roots members in what should have been Labour strongholds also took the oposite view.
We need more cross-benchers in the Commons to give a balanced view and a smaller House of Lords appointed on merit and expertise to fulfil its function of a revising chamber to curb the excesses of the Commons, not to politically mirror the Commons by each administration appointing new Peers to try to mirror the Commons party ratio.

All I heard from the politicians on both sides was vote for us for blah, blah, blah.

I am old enough and educated enough to know that politics is all about lying just enough to get the result you want.

I ignored what was being said by the politicians, the media which follow which ever party the Owner/editor follows.

I did my own research into the future of the EU, the trade we do with them vs the world before making my decision, and voted accordingly

What really is getting to me more than anything is all of the vitriol being spouted on social media, from both sides.

The more I read since the referendum the more I'm inclined to petition government to give absolute power back to the Monarchy because the country as a whole has deteriorated to a state where it can't be trusted to respect one another's right to hold a different view.

I find reading large blocks of text online difficult Susan, because of floaters but I will look out for it in print, if I get to the library. :-)

edit, one of the authors doesn't exactly have an unblemished record for accuracy though?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Booker

That's not to say he may not be right in this instance...I just like to know background, writers are not without their own bias lolol.