General Chat

Now that the deed is done and everyone has had their moments of bemoaning the fact that the leaves have it, perhaps the uk knocking can be done with. It doesn't help our Country for us to be seen to slag it and a democratic process off......doesn't look good.

I, for one, never believe or trust anything a politician says, so they didn't influence my vote....It is annoying to hear people keep harping on that my age group should not have been allowed to vote.....Hasn't everyone gone on for years about getting out there and using your vote.....Well I and millions of others did..... and the result Is leave.....maybe those with the words and so called more intelligence could put that to use and come up with some more positive solutions than all this doom and gloom. Which now has no point to it.

;-)

I am finding the attitude of some " remainers" both on the boards and in general quite unpleasant. I read as much as I could, researched what I could and thought very hard about my decision, and I chose to vote In. It would be very arrogant of me to think that someone voting Out thought any less about their decision than I did.

I am disappointed with the result but we all wanted the best for the country so let's stop moaning and pull together a bit more.

Fwiw I am a crinkly-wrinkly - even my children are over 45!

You will never get simple straight forward politics in a democracy. Running a successful democratic (small d ) government means balancing a lot of conflicting interests without allowing the most powerful or numerous to ride roughshod over the others. Government by plebiscite is not democracy.

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…" W.S.Churchill

Although I was not a great fan of her politics Margaret Thatcher was very good at this chopping overgrown trees down to size and allowing others to thrive in newfound sunlight. As a man of the left it pains me that most on the left will never admit the many things she did for ordinary people and small businesses. Neither will the Tories 'cos she made too many enemies of vested interests and they took her down.

In particular she pretty well invented the single market in the EU and it is that market which allowed hundreds of UK firms to grow and expand in a way which would never have happened otherwise. The other side of the coin, which she accepted, was more foreigners working (not shirking) in the UK and the membership of E Europe.

Now all that risks coming undone to the great detriment of both the UK and the EU.

I voted IN, I am not under 45 far from it ..... I have a postal vote and I cast my vote and returned it in the post the day I received it. I didn't wait to listen to all the rhetoric in so called debates or the scaremongering from both sides. I voted to remain in the EU just as I voted yes to join in the first place. We the British people didn't know then just what to really expect , neither do we know now what the consequences of our leaving will be in the future.......... all we can do is hope foe the best.

Why is nothing ever straightforward any more? We all had a choice and made
our X...... and now just have to be patient and await the consequences.

Wow!.....are you telling me that I listened to liars before I voted out?....Sheesh! And here was me thinking that I had put a great deal of thought into my decision and also did much research before voting.....but again, Wow! Perhaps I should now believe that I didn't know what I was doing because those who are mad about losing say so.........Nah!.....I voted out and still say out!......no amount of wordy posts will make me change my mind any more than Boris or Nigel etc made me want out.....my choice! I now think we should get on with it, unite and stop knocking our country and it's ability to rule itself.......( it is this that is damaging us at the moment )....Let the EU do that, we have work to do!

i guess you call that wisdom versus inexperiece.
Who knows what he future will bring.
Oh by the way i never did find out what the reformed EU the stay ins were on about. Or did i miss it.

Those over 45 had a majority for out.

Those under 45 had a majority for in.

It is ironic that the latter have to live with a decision that they don't agree with by people who are unlikely to see through the consequences.

We the electorate of Great Britain voted out. I investigated the claims & scare mongering on both sides, as I know many of the voters in Kent & Sussex did.

It seems the British voters are not the only ones who want out:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/654175/French-voters-demand-Frexit-EU-referendum-Germany-UK-Brexit

Whatever the glass half empty among us believe, my glass is half full.

Whilst I don't agree with Rollo's political leanings (He is red, I'm blue for those who haven't cottoned on) everything he has said over the past months in the referendum is absolutely correct.

I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that we won't totally exit from Europe as some seem to think, nor will there ever be some magic jump in our countries fortunes. Far from it, whatever the final outcome is the reality is that the next year will hit out pockets hard. Already petrol prices are due to rise next week by 2-3 ppl because of the failing pound and that is just the start.

Who do we think is going to negotiate our departure? There is no one in the current line up that I can see.

My wife is half French half Spanish so although she pays lotsa tx here she didn't get to vote. No matter. She has been yakking to her rellies though who are more than unhappy at the UK vote. One of them is a member of the Spanish Cortes (Parliament)

Now the interesting bit.
If the Brits do trigger S50 and enter the 2 year (max) negotiations Spain will want sovereignty of the Rock of Gibraltar or they will veto any deal. That will go down very well with the Daily Snail.

It is a universal law of politics that the longer something is delayed the less likely it is to happen at all. In the English context we have third London Airport, HS2 and Hinckley Point power station all of which have dragged on for years without anything actually happening except spending lotsa money.

Now we have brexit/S50

appoint new prime minister Brum 5 Oct 2016 - delay > 3 months
Boris attempts back channel stitch up with Merkel - 3 months
it is now Jan 2017; the £ is through the floor, petrol near £ 2 / litre flood of foreign owned companies rushing through the door, very cold winter energy bills up 20% suddenly all the crinklies find £ 300 fuel allowance is not all that much ...
Nicola Sturgeon most popular person to be UK PM

who then will kick off S50 - Boris the Bold ?

I rather think not. It will be like a crew of one legged pensioners deciding who should kick the winning goal.

enjoy

Under TEU Article 50 has to be invoked before we can leave.
As Cameron has resigned, this would be the responsibility of his successor - and that person hasn't been put in place yet.

Although Article 50 is a template for those wishing to leave, negotiations have to take place, which could take up to 2 years, meanwhile, we're still paying the EU the same money, and receiving a vast amount of it back in subsidies for farmers, fishermen, industries, Wales, Cornwall etc.

So don't expect anything too soon!!

It also appears, some people believe Democracy means they can behave like this:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wales

We hear all this every time there is an election and people don't get what they want.

it wasn't democratic; a big chunk of postal votes are missing, there has been fiddling with the ballot boxes in the Midlands, 16-18 denied the vote, campaign Leave nothing but out and out porkies.

For democracy to work electors need something reasoably close to the truth not a bunch of chancers and dodgy newspapers.

It is just not realistic to expect the working part of the country which brings in the bacon from abroad to accept what amounts to a coup from the crinklies.

The House of Parliament committee which deals with fraud on petitions has removed about 80 000 sigs of the > 3M sigs so far - probably less fraud than the referendum itself. Many polling stations were festooned with UKIP regalia.

Whatever happens next the demise of the British rust belt will go on.
Tough, as you say.

I am not feeling stupid either and no I do not live in the past :-|. I voted out for my own reasons

Like it or not, the vote was Democratic. To overrule this is Dictatorship and not right!!!

Ah, yes. But you are a grown up aren't you?

I second that, Rose, and I'm sure that a goodly proportion of who voted out are feeling pretty stupid now it is slowly dawning on them they were taken for a ride by the lies from the leave campaigners.

I think this referendum might be a huge set-back for those who want proportional representation in this country.

I see that the main petition was started by a Leave supporter before the vote, when he wanted it to be harder for Remain to win outright.

It is also being investigated for fraud as many signatories are from outside the UK.