General Chat

It's not THAT sort of phonics Gwyn - they learn to spell the words properly - it's just the speed they seem to have to learn them - and the inevitable overlapping of learning the letter sounds and words.

As for the idea of 'if children don't learn in the way you teach, teach in the way in which they learn' - Governments over time, ending with Gove's final slap, put an end to that idea :-(

I have yet to view this programme, which I recorded... I will view with interest following your comments.

I well remember visiting a reception class in late 1960s and being asked if I'd like to read them a story. I willingly agreed, but didn't find it at all easy to read fluently from the book written in i.t.a. as mentioned by Sue.

I thought one of the 'rules' of teaching was that if children don't learn in the way you teach, teach in the way in which they learn.

It wasn't just the 'one size fits all' attitude - it was the way the children were almost 'hot housed'. Quite a few said, after a while, that they didn't want to read - it was too difficult etc etc.

It also wasn't a case of learning to read before junior school - these were RECEPTION children, added 4 and 5, who were expected to be able to read before they went up into YEAR 1 :-0 (like your grand daughter, Lyndi), but not all children can
a) learn that quickly - or using phonics
b) are actually ready to learn to read, or to put up with the pressure it puts on some of them - and their parents.

My granddaughter (just coming to the end of her reception year and was 5 last month) is learning to read using the Read Write Inc method and it seems to be working well for her. The school did sessions to show parents (and the want to be in the know grandparents ;-) ) how it worked, and they promise no child will be left behind. If they are struggling they are given extra help at this stage instead of slipping through the net. Time will tell how well it works for all but J now loves to read me a story before I read her one :-)

I too learnt by phonetics in the 40s and always loved reading. I taught our daughter by phonetics before she went to school, when she started she was a few books ahead of most of her class, although that evened out. Son had no inclination to learn to read before school so i didn't force him. By the age of seven they both reached the same reading level. Not sure how they were taught, this was in the late sixties for daughter (born 1961 and early seventies for son (born 1967). I seem to remember they were shown words on cards and had to learn them. They both grew up loving books.

Incidentally daughter didn't go to nursery, playgroup or pre school, straight into infants at five, Son went to playgroup at three, but it was exactly that, play. Both did well at school with GCSE and A levels, both have done extremely well in their careers. I do wonder at the point of all this early schooling for all.

As children we didn't know we were being taught phonics. I agree with what Pat said. We just learnt the basics on the lines of c-a-t, d-o-g etc and the rest got added in gradually without us realising it. At least, when faced with a new word we could attempt to work it out. We had a class of about 40 and as far as I recall everyone left infant school able to read and, more importantly, most of us enjoyed reading.

I had certainly forgotten the ITA. I remember wondering at the time whether it would cause confusion. You don't hear much about that these days do you.

Whatever method is used to teach youngsters to read, the important thing is that they get pleasure from it.

Just worked it out

2 heads and 14 teachers and nearly 700 children.

Those are learnt later Supercrutch when you are able to adjust but the basics were all learnt via phonetics.

The first extra sound was th followed by sh and so on. By the time we got to junior school all my class were fluent readers.

We couldn't have much time reading with our teachers as there was just too many of us.

The head teachers of both the infants and junior school heard us read once a year to see how we were getting on. You went to their office and given a page to read.

I am a baby boomer and we overwhelmed our area. A new infants/junior was built but they closed another to form another grammar school. We had to make room for those from the closed school, yet our teachers managed to teach us to read and write very quickly.

When I returned to school after my illness I had extra checks to make sure I could keep up. I was sent work every week and mum collected it and returned it completed.

We managed at our school with very limited supplies and no I wasn't in a country school I was in a large town.

I believe most if not all school children of the 40s and 50s were taught the
c - a - t method of reading.

I have had my daughter tell me about her having to show university educated people how to write a letter and to check spelling. We were able to write letters halfway through junior school. I guess I feel lucky being educated the way I was. It worked for me and my class that's all I can tell you, my OH didn't do too bad either.

Found the teaching method my nephews suffered:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1523708.stm

How is English phonetic?

though (like o in go)
through (like oo in too)
cough (like off in offer)
rough (like uff in suffer)
plough (like ow in flower)
ought (like aw in saw)
borough (like a in above)

Same here Vera my son was in that group and I had to fight his school who refused to believe he was behind in reading. We moved and on his reading assessment at the new school was 18 months behind his age group. With the teacher's help,so he was unaware what was happening, we got him 3 months advanced for his age in 4 months.

My daughter is 4 yrs younger hence the reason I taught my daughter phonetics.

I am a bit confused here Supercrutch. I thought phonics/phonetics was the old fashioned way of teaching reading. It is certainly how I learnt in the 1940s.

My son got caught up, in the early 1970s, in an experiment called "Breakthrough to Literacy". Parents were asked not to teach their children any reading before they started school but after a year on this wonderful scheme all children would be fluent readers. Ha, ha, b....y ha. After a year my son could barely recognise a letter, let alone a word, so I ignored the school's advice, went out and bought some old fashioned Beacon readers and got him started myself. The following year the scheme was abandoned.

Funny I thought phonetics was the old fashioned way as my parents were taught the same as I was. That covers the years 1921 - 1956. Saw the article some time ago of the decision to return to phonetics.

I clearly remember calling out the sounds of C - A - T which was written on the blackboard to make cat, then writing onto my slate. My school couldn't afford paper for the first years in the infants, much cheaper on the old slates. We had exercise books in the second year. I don't know when as I missed the 1st 4 months of 2nd year as I was very ill.

Have just asked OH, he was taught over 100 miles from my school, he says he was taught by phonetics.

My nephews were caught up in the phonetic learning experiment and it was a disaster.

Trying to unpick what they already had ingrained was absolutely unproductive.

My grandchildren love their books written in both Welsh and English and are taught the old fashioned way which works perfectly well.

I learned to read by phonetics in the early 50s. All of my class of 48 children could read and write by the end of the first year.

There were 2 classes of nearly 100 children for each year in my infants and junior school. Nearly half of my class passed the 11+.

My son had to learn each word and found it hard going so I taught my daughter phonetics by making it fun, she read 56 books in her 1st year at school and became a free reader in her 2nd year.

Talk about the wheel turning :-(

We taught our son to read while he was at kindy with the Janet and John type books. He took to it like a duck to water.

Then, when he started primary school, the 'experts' decided that phonetic reading would be taught. Even we couldn't understand the books he was bringing home and it very nearly set him back.

Fortunately we persevered with him at home :-D

I'm talking about the UK in the very late 70's, very early 80's

Edit: the problem with learning to read phonetically is that when a child sees books with 'real' words he/she does not recognise them. It's almost like having to learn to read all over again :-0

My eldest would have NEVER learnt to read this way - she's dyslexic :-(

However, she could read before she went to school, because she had books and wanted me to read to her.
I used to read nursery rhymes - she looked at the words as I recited them, learnt the rhymes, and one day I 'caught' her pointing at the words as she recited the rhymes (she recognised the rhymes by the pictures) - she actually taught herself to read by word recognition. :-D and loves reading.

She's also now a grammar Nazi (with atrocious handwriting) but I won't mention that :-D

Younger daughter never wanted to see the words, but aged 3, brought a book, sat on my lap and told me to teach her to read!!! I said I couldn't, but could show her what the words said. She never asked me again, but when she started school, she, like her sister, flew through the reading scheme and was soon on 'free' reading :-S

This wasn't achieved through a draconian 'one system suits all' regime, but purely by being read stories and rhymes - rhymes are very important - which is how it should be at school - so those who missed out on being read to at home can savour the joy, and be slowly introduced to the wonder of books.

Couldn't agree more Maggie :-)

I'm in despair. Talk about taking the fun out of learning :-|

One of Gove's ideas, prescribed learning - 'All children should learn the same way. All children should learn to read phonetically.'
So 'difference' is obviously, to him, a 'bad' thing (as are 'experts' apparently)

Just learn the letter sounds, learn the word formations - THEN dissect the words.

Dissecting the words as you learn them, at the same time as learning the letter sounds - what is that??????

Thank goodness my grandchildren had a love of books and could read before they started school.

The fact that English may be a second language for many of these children is totally negated by the fact that, quite a few of those whose first language is English are having trouble too :-| :-| :-|


Edit: Missing playtime, or other punishment because you, at 4 or 5 quite frankly, don't know what the hell is going on, and you're bored because you don't understand - a sure way to make the task even less enamouring.
THEN to get homework!!!

In some countries, children don't start school until they're 6.