General Chat

Hi all,

My name is Ashlee and on behalf of grandmother I am wanting to find her family.

Her birth name is Patricia BEALE. She was adopted at a young age by a family with the last name KNIGHT.
Her parents names are JOSEPH BEALE & ELSIE BEALE (nee DICKENS)

If anyone knows of any information that could possibly help this would be much appriciated. :-)

When was she born and where please

Am guessing she has her original birth cert

Was she born 1937 ??? Pancras

Parents married same reg district

Marriages Sep 1923
Beale Joseph G Dickens Pancras 1b 261
Dickens Elsie Beale Pancras 1b 261

The cert will give their ages and fathers names .if known


Look on freebmd there are other possible children for the couple

This could be them on the 1939 register


Beale Household (2 People)
53 House , Islington, London, England
Start free family tree View original imagePrint
FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB OCCUPATION
Joseph G Beale 12 Apr 1907 Railway Loader
Elsie Hanks (Beale) 30 Jun 1901 Home Duties >>>>>>
Ref: RG101/0289H/017/37 Letter Code:
© Findmypast Ltd
>>>> actual birth on sheet is 21.6.1901
Two closed records

So possibly a divorce as she remarried showing her maiden name too
Marriages Dec 1952
BEALE Elsie Hanks Edmonton 5e 646
DICKENS Elsie HANKS Edmonton 5e 646
HANKS Horace A BEALE Edmonton 5e 646
HANKS Horace A DICKENS. Edmonton 5e 646

Think you need to get some certs for confirmation of father's names etc

Maybe

Name: Horace Alfred Hanks
Registration Year: 1904
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: St Marylebone
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 577


Horace A Hanks
Birth Date: abt 1904
Date of Registration: Dec 1966
Age at Death: 62
Registration district: Haringey
Inferred County: Greater London
Volume: 5b
Page: 843

Hi Ashlee

These kind of requests are best posted on the "Find Ancestors" board.......but hey ho, no worries, it's here now.

I can't read what is written.......but on the 1939 Register, something is written in red ink over Joseph's YOB.

The only birth registered for Joseph G Beale beween 1901--1911 is this one....

BEALE, JOSEPH GEORGE MMN DRUITT
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in ST OLAVE BERMONDSEY Volume 01D Page 220


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
20 Russell Scott Blgs Cherry Garden St Bermondsey S E, Bermondsey, London, England

Joseph Edward Beale Head - Male Waterside Labourer 36 1875 Bermondsey London
Charlotte Ann Beale Wife - Female - 26 1885 Bermondsey London
Joseph George Beale Son - Male - 2 1909 Bermondsey London
Charlotte Dorothy Beale Daughter - Female - 0 1911 Bermondsey London

Parents marriage......

Marriages Dec 1906 (>99%)
BEALE Joseph Edward St. Olave 1d 443
DRUITT Charlotte Anna St. Olave 1d 443


Joseph George Beale in the London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1659-1930
Name: Joseph George Beale
Birth Date: 9 Aug 1908
Admission Age: 7
Admission Date: 16 May 1916
Discharge Date: 17 May 1916
Record Type: Admission and Discharge
Borough: Southwark
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bermondsey
Place: London, England
Title: Saint Olave's Workhouse, Parish Street, 1915-1920

Also on the image is sister Charlotte Dorothy...born 07/07/10
Brother George William....born 14/11/14

Relative Mother Charlotte........Res:1 Russell Scott Buildings

Joseph Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Joseph Beale
Birth Date: 9 Aug 1908
Date of Registration: Apr 1986
Age at Death: 77
Registration district: Bromley
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 11
Page: 1232


Joseph George Beale in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966, 1973-1995
Name: Joseph George Beale
Death Date: 23 Apr 1986
Death Place: Bromley
Probate Date: 27 Aug 1986
Registry: London

Of 21 Bamford Roard, Bromley.......£60195

Wonder if the births on the 1939 reg are way out

???
Elsie Hanks
Birth Date: 21 Jun 1903
Date of Registration: Mar 1982
Age at Death: 78
Registration district: Hitchin
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 10
Page: 0611

Ah, this is the Joseph born 1908....

Joseph G Beale on the 1939 Register

Beale Household (4 People) 21 Bamford Road , Lewisham, London, England

Joseph G Beale 09 Aug 1908 Male Disinfector Public Health Boiler Attendant Married 124 1
Emily E Beale 12 Sep 1907 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 124 2
Emily Figg 21 Feb 1870 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 124 3
Ronald H Phillips 03 Jul 1914 Male ? Mechanic Married 124 5

Marriages Sep 1936 (>99%)
Beale Joseph G Figg Southwark 1d 71
Figg Emily E Beale Southwark 1d 71

So the information i posted is not your Joseph G Beale.

I will leave the info on this Joseph so that we know we can discount him.

I have confused myself!

Sorry but have to pop out now.

As i posted earlier, a correction appears to have been made for Joseph's YOB on the 1939 register.........On the image the 12th April looks more like the 14th April.

Occupation Railway Loader....

Britain, Trade Union membership registers Transcription

First name(s) J G
Last name Beale
Birth year 1897
Admission year 1925
Age 28
Occupation/grade Porter
Trade Railway Workers
Union name National Union Of Railwaymen
Union branch Somers Town
Union branch as transcribed Somers Town
County Middlesex
Country England
Archive Modern Records Centre
Archive reference MSS.127/NU/OR/2/89
Folio or page 138
Title General Register
Dates Aug-Nov 1925
Information contained Members 01_318001-01_333000
No of volumes 1
Record set Britain, Trade Union Membership Registers
Category Education & work
Subcategory Guild & Trade Associations
Collections from Great Britain..

I am wondering if this is him......

London\u002C England\u002C Church of England Births and Baptisms\u002C 1813-1906
Name Joseph George Beale
Record Type Baptism
Baptism Date 7 May 1899
Born: 14th April 1897 <<<<
Father's Name Joseph Beale (Carman) 96 Euston Street
Mother's Name Ellen Susan Beale
Parish or Poor Law Union St Pancras
Borough Camden
Register Type Parish Registers

Also on the image is a brother...

Albert William Beale....born 30th Mar 1899


Births Jun 1897 (>99%)
Beale Joseph George Pancras 1b 32 MMN Feist

I think Albert should actually be Herbert.....

Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
Beale Herbert William Pancras 1b 76 MMN Feast

If i am on the right track, here is the family in 1901 and 1911

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
46, Little George Street, St Pancras, London, England

Joseph Beale Head Married Male 43 1858 Carman Bedfordshire, England
Ellen Beale Wife Married Female 42 1859 - Hastings, Sussex, England
Joseph Beale Son - Male 4 1897 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Herbert Beale Son - Male 2 1899 - St Pancras, Middlesex, England


1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
28 Drummond St Somers Town N W, St Pancras, London, England

Joseph Beale Head Married Male Furniture Porter 53 1858 Dunstable
Ellen Sussan Beale Wife Married Female - 52 1859 Hastings
Joseph George Beale Son - Male School 14 1897 London St Pancras
Herbert William Beale Son - Male School 12 1899 London St Pancras
Albert Ed Beale Son - Male School 9 1902 London St Pancras
Harry Beale Son - Male School 7 1904 London St Pancras

(Married 14 years.....4 children born and living)

BEALE, ALBERT EDWARD MMN FEIST
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 83

BEALE, HENRY JAMES MMN FEIST
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 570

Parents marriage......

Marriages Mar 1897 (>99%)
BEALE Joseph George Pancras 1b 20
FEIST Ellen Susan Pancras 1b 20

A copy of Joseph and Elsie's marriage cert would confirm if this is the correct family.

Does your Grandmother know when and where her parents were born or when and where they died?

Another question........Does your Grandmother know the names of any sibling?

There is a birth registered for a Shirley Beale between Mary E and Patricia Beale

Births Jun 1935 (>99%)
Beale Shirley Dickens Pancras 1b 103

______________________________________-



Mother Ellen Susan Beale on the 1939 Register....with sons Albert and Henry

Ellen S Beale on the 1939 Register

Beale Household (3 People)
13 Richens Buildings Herbrand Street , Holborn, London, England

Ellen S Beale 09 Mar 1859 Unpaid Domestic Work
Albert E Beale 20 Jun 1901 Warehouseman - Stationery
Henry ? Beale 04 Aug 1903 Motor Mechanic
***(On the image......Henry J Beale born 21st Aug 1903***)

Death of husband.....

Joseph G Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Joseph G Beale
Birth Date: abt 1858
Date of Registration: Sep 1933
Age at Death: 75
Registration district: Pancras
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 52


Ellen S Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Ellen S Beale
Birth Date: abt 1861
Date of Registration: Mar 1951
Age at Death: 90
Registration district: Holborn
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5c
Page: 1299

Son Herbert.......

Herbert W Beale on the 1939 Register

Beale Household (3 People) 29 Saint Annes Flats Drummond Street , St Pancras, London, England

Herbert W Beale 30 Mar 1899 Milkman
Olive C Beale 23 Nov 1898 Zip Fastener Assistant
(One Closed Record)
Rosina V Charles (Beale) 24 Feb 1925 Packer (Chemist)

Marriages Jun 1920 (>99%)
Beale Herbert W Bellotti Pancras 1b 183
Bellotti Olive C Beale Pancras 1b 183


Herbert W Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Herbert W Beale
Birth Date: abt 1899
Date of Registration: Dec 1966
Age at Death: 67
Registration district: St Pancras
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 1075


Albert Edward Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Albert Edward Beale
Birth Date: 20 Jun 1901
Date of Registration: Dec 1981
Age at Death: 80
Registration district: Hackney
Inferred County: London
Volume: 12
Page: 1683


Henry James Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Henry James Beale
Birth Date: 21 Aug 1903
Date of Registration: Mar 1972
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: St Pancras
Inferred County: London
Volume: 5d
Page: 2534

I can't seem to find a death for brother Joseph George Beale.

Horace Alfred Hanks and wife Elsie are on the Electoral Rolls from 1953 to 1963

Residence: 296 Morteyne Road, Tottenham.

In 1953, 1955 and 1956... George H Beale who was a son from Elsie's first marriage to Joseph G Beale is also with them

Also daughter Mary E Beale from Elsie's first marriage is with them on all the ER's

She appears as Mary E Spencer from 1955 onwards as she married that year.

Marriages Mar 1955 (>99%)
BEALE Mary E SPENCER Edmonton 5e 1036
SPENCER Raymond J BEALE Edmonton 5e 1036

Births Jun 1932 (>99%)
Beale Mary E Dickens Hampstead 1a 789

??

Mrs Mary Ellen Spencer in the England and Wales, Death Index, 2007-2015
Name: Mrs Mary Ellen Spencer
Gender: Female
Age: 75
Birth Date: 14 May 1932
Death Date: 10 Sep 2007
Residence Place at Death: London, Greater London, England
Postal Code District: Se22

On the 1958 ER there is a Dennis Beale with the family.......It seems that George H Beale's death was registered with both names of George and Dennis.

How very odd!


Births Jun 1927 (>99%)
Beale George H Dickens London C. 1c 10

George Herbert Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: George Herbert Beale
Birth Date: 21 Apr 1927
Date of Registration: Apr 2000
Age at Death: 73
Registration district: Wrexham
Inferred County: Cheshire, Denbighshire, Flintshire
Register Number: B131
District and Subdistrict: 8131B
Entry Number: 83

Dennis George Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Dennis George Beale
Birth Date: 21 Apr 1927
Date of Registration: Apr 2000
Age at Death: 73
Registration district: Wrexham
Inferred County: Cheshire, Denbighshire, Flintshire
Register Number: B131
District and Subdistrict: 8131B
Entry Number: 83

PM sent to let Ashlee know there are replies.

hi guys,

sorry for the late reply.
i have both original documents (birth & adoption certs).
she was born in 1937 in pancras to Joseph and elsie beale.

i cant seem to find any photos or documents other then her mother and father.
she is wanting to know if she has any brothers or sisters still alive or any nieces or nephews.

Hi again Ashlee

Going back to the beginning, from the information you provided, we know that Joseph and Elsie had a daughter Patricia who was adopted.

From the Electoral Rolls.....we know that Joseph and Elsie also had children....

Births Jun 1927 (>99%)
Beale George H Dickens London C. 1c 10 (Died in 2000)

Births Jun 1932 (>99%)
Beale Mary E Dickens Hampstead 1a 789

Mary E Beale married Raymond J Spencer in 1955 (Died in 2007)

There is a possible daughter born to the Spencer/Beale marriage in 1961

You can check out the details of the birth registration here....

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Apart from the birth, i can't find any further information about her.

The only Beale/Dickens marriage registered between 1890 and 1923 is the one between Joseph and Elsie.........so these births are quite possibly also the children of the couple......

Births Mar 1924 (>99%)
Beale Irene B Dickens Marylebone 1a 677 (Irene E Beale on the image)

Births Dec 1925 (>99%)
Beale Ronald J Dickens Marylebone 1a 715

Births Dec 1929 (>99%)
BEALE Barbara R Dickens Romford 4a 729

Births Jun 1935 (>99%)
Beale Shirley Dickens Pancras 1b 103

Take a look in "Search All Members Trees" to see if any other members have any of these people in their tree.

I wonder if this is Ronald on the 1939 register with the Nicholls family in Herfordshire

His birth year is out by a year......

1939 Register Transcription

Nicholls Household (4 People) 6 Oak Tree Cottages , Ware R.D., Hertfordshire, England


James Nicholls 15 Apr 1895 Roadman Hertford R C C
Alice H Nicholls 15 Sep 1897 Unpaid Domestic Duties
(One Closed Record)
Gordon Nicholls 22 May 1938 Under School Age
***Ronald Beale 05 Dec 1926 At School***


Ronald Joseph Beale in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Ronald Joseph Beale
Birth Date: 5 Dec 1925
Date of Registration: Oct 1994
Age at Death: 68
Registration district: Stevenage
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Register Number: 18A
District and Subdistrict: 5371A
Entry Number: 130