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Army Pensioner- Died between 1864 and 1896.

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Lisa

Lisa Report 20 Apr 2014 20:28

On my great grand father Michael O`Brien `s [1864-1946] marriage certificate [Married 16 Dec 1896 to Phoebe Kirkman] at the Mother of God and St James RC Church Pendleton,Salford,Lancs]. On the details of the father of the groom it states,Father ,Patrick .Occupation Army Pensioner[Deceased]. If anyone wants me to upload the document i can do.I have looked high and low and can find no trace of his Pension records.I have no idea of the Regiment he was in ,or of the years, only that he died ,obviously sometime between his son,Michael being born in 1864[And I can`t find HIS birth cert.anywhere], and his son Michael getting married in 1896. I even contacted an "expert" in Genealogy in the States to see if she could find it and she found nothing. All she said was that because SHE couldn`t find the details then they must be incorrect. But I have a copy of my grandfather`s Death Cert [Patrick`s son].It says,Date of Death,July 1946 age 82. I have seen where he is buried and the inscription says,Michael O`Brien 1864-1946. So I hardly think both documents[his marriage cert and his death cert] will both be incorrect.However,that said,I can find no record of my grandfather`s Birth [I think it is in Money ,King`s County,Ireland 1864],or HIS father`s details of his job in the Army. What am I doing wrong? Or is it just that there are so many Michael and Patrick O`Brien`s that it it will be impossible to EVER find them? Any suggestions at all would be really appreciated.Thanks,Lisa O`Brien. Newry,County Down.

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 20 Apr 2014 20:56

His age does vary on the census though, and sadly it is a very common name.

1901:

Name: Michael Obrien
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1873<<<<<<<<<<
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Phoebe Obrien
Birth Place: Ireland
Civil Parish: Pendleton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Census 1911:

Name: Michael Obrien
[Michael O'Brien]
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1869<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Money Kiltarlity, Ireland<<<<<<<
Civil Parish: Stretford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 474 Fourth St Tafford Park
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Labouring
Registration district: Barton upon Irwell
Registration District Number: 463

KathleenBell

KathleenBell Report 20 Apr 2014 23:19

As there were no penalties for not registering a birth until 1875 his birth may not have been registered in which case you may be better looking for a baptism.

Kath. x

Lisa

Lisa Report 20 Apr 2014 23:47

Hello,thanks for the replies.I`m confused though. Where did you read it said on the 1911 Census Birth Place,Money, KILTARLITY? I read it as Money, Kings County [which is now County Offaly]. I`ve never heard of a place in Ireland called Kiltarlity. But just to throw a spanner in the works,my half sister Jean thought Michael was from Cork, and a cousin of mine I once met up with,called Roy Atherton told me my grandfather was from Bantry in West Cork. In fact this is what I had always been led to believe, so this Kings County thing really threw me. Needless to say,yes there are a hell of a lot of Michael and Patrick O`Brien`s in Cork. Because of this i`m kind of hoping he is from Kings County instead.!

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 20 Apr 2014 23:51

Hi,

Kiltarlity is a mistranscription- it's actually King's County on the census image itself.

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 20 Apr 2014 23:53

???


Name: Michael Obrien
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 28 Jan 1868
Birth Place: Kings, Ireland
Father's Name: Patrick Obrien<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's name: Anne Dunne
FHL Film Number: 101162

EDIT:

OK, so not Money.... is there really a place called Money? But seems to be in Kings County.

Name: Michael Obrien
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 28 Jan 1868
Birth Place: Frankford, Kings, Ireland<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Baptism Place: Frankford, Kings, Ireland
Father's Name: Patrick Obrien<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's name: Anne Dunne
FHL Film Number: 101162

Don't forget that age at death is only as reliable as the knowledge of the informant, and censuses 1901 and 1911 give birth years of c1873, and c1869.

EDIT: Seems FRANKFORD, is known as KILCORMAC nowadays, and there is a place called MUNNY (MONEY?) near to Kilcormac/Frankford.

Kucinta

Kucinta Report 21 Apr 2014 00:11

No telling who married who, but.......


Name: Anne Dunne<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Date of Registration: 1864
Registration district: Dublin North
Volume: 7
Page Number: 582
FHL Film Number: 101249
Records on Page:
Name
Anne Tobin
Anne Dunne<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
James John Monks
Margaret Ryan
Joseph Lynch
Mary Cullan
James Connor
Patrick O'Brien<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Also, unfortunately, both names are fairly common.

Lisa

Lisa Report 21 Apr 2014 00:35

Thanks for this,it`s really appreciated. Yes,I have seen the Anne Dunne and Frankford info and I have noted it for future reference. But there`s no real way of knowing. There are lots of potentials on the ifhi.rootswebireland site.On one of them on the Civil Death Record for 1879 it says Patrick Brien age 55 address Money, Parish/District Kilcormac County Offaly. Importantly for me,Occupation Army Pensioner,which i know he was.I actually telephoned Offaly Tourist Board a few weeks ago enquiring about this place called Money [It`s not Moneygall,where Barack Obama`s ancestors are from].The woman had never even heard of Money.However she asked around the office while i was still on the phone and they looked at old maps and found it. According to Wikipedia in their list of Townlands Money is 1,046 acres,is in the Barony of Ballyboy ,the civil parish of Ballyboy and the Poor Law Union area of Parsonstown. She said judging by the map it is literally in the middle of nowhere nowadays.There is not a hut,barn or anything in sight for miles. I asked her advice about me maybe taking a trip out to the area in the summer,maybe staying in Ballyboy.She said fine,but to get out to Money from Ballyboy I would HAVE to have a car,which I don`t. Then she said I would then have to get a taxi, out to literally,the middle of a field,and then there would be no way of getting back .I really should have learned to drive years ago.!!! The thing is if I Do take a couple of days to Offaly,it is such a long way from me [I live in Newry County Down] that I`d hardly go all that way and not take a taxi out to the middle of nowhere to see Money. Even if there IS nothing to see.!!! Many thanks for your help anyway,Lisa. :-) :-) :-)