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jax

jax Report 17 Sep 2012 19:18

How they chose the 5000 people who were invited to try the beta testing I dont know.....but I doubt whether they were all users of the community boards.

Computer literate....No I can turn laptop on and off and work my way around the internet, apart from that I have no idea how to do anything. Cache, cookies even browser is a foreign language to me.

I have to say I have managed to do things with the new tree which I never was able to on the old one....like looking at a large tree which was opened to me....or finding where my particular ancestor fitted in some other large tree and moving up, down and left and right of the tree using the arrows. There may have been some easy way to do it before...but I never found it

Cynthia

Cynthia Report 17 Sep 2012 19:36

Wendy - I was okay with the old tree but think the new tree has some additional features which are helpful. Maybe I am just fortunate in not having hit too many problems with it.


John - I do take exception to your statement that when you came on the board you were 'attacked, called moaners and told you were complaining to the wrong people'.


You were not attacked, you were advised but you didn't like the advice.

You did (and still do) keep harping on and on about the old tree.

You did come onto the boards to complain but, these are the Community boards, NOT the Complaint boards.

We can all have our opinions on things but any real 'complaint' should be sent directly to Genes.





SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 17 Sep 2012 19:41

John


you are extremely fond .............. far too fond, to my mind ............... in applying what YOU think to what others have said, and thus denigrating people

Politicians do that ........ it's called spin doctoring over here, and is much disliked.


This is not the first time that you have misinterpreted what I've said ..........

................... some might say "twisted my words" ..........

......... to make yourself look better, and me look one of the opposition.


I have NEVER been negative about the old tree .................... I did after all start my tree on here ..............................


.............. all i have done is to attempt to point out that you, and others with the tree problem, very conveniently forget that there ARE people who are happy with the new tree, and are working away very busily adding to to their tree.


The fact that something like 20 or 30 people have been posting multiple times (nay hundreds of times) over the last few weeks on the Boards re how much they hate the new tree, while only about 10 people have posted in favour of it does NOT mean that twice as many people dislike the new tree.


All it means is that those who dislike the tree are far more vocal that those who like it. Those who like the tree are far too busy building their trees


That applies in all aspects of life ...........

.......... more people who dislike the country's government will be vocal than those who either like it or are so-so about it.

......... more people who disagree with a TV programme or a movie will be vocal, than those who like it.

Those who are not anti-whatever will say "I'm OK, the government's working for me, that programme was interesting. I'm OK" ................. and will not stand on the opposite street corner and shout out loud.


I know of at least 25 people who DO like the new tree ........ some have posted on threads to say so, others have not bothered with posting on GR, but have said elsewhere or in other contact with me that they are very happy.


This information does make a lot of your statements trumpeting "Noone likes the new tree" to sound ridiculous.



BTW ............. I have not looked back on all threads to count the number of people who have posted, nor the number of posts made ................... I'm relying on memory of names of people, and numbers of times I can remember them posting. For example, a very large percentage (75% 80%, higher?) of your 581 posts have been on the same topic, dislike of the tree.


I have been open about the fact that I have a small number of names on my GR tree ................ that's MY desire ..................

I'm also very open, as you know, about the fact that I have not actually entered any more names on that tree in the last 3 years or so, except for one test that I did at the beginning of August to see if I could understand what you and others were complaining about. My tree worked just fine, so I guess you should count me as one of the satisfied people!


................ I have no wish to be a name collector, nor to be in competition with others as to how many names I "own".

Nor to tell everyone all the time how many names I have, nor how many names I add in a session

It has been suggested by some that trees with many thousands of names MIGHT have more problems than ones with only a few hundred names.

That's possible ................... and I can see that exchanging information on size of tree MIGHT help sort out the problem



My tree is maintained at home, on my own computer, in a format that I prefer .......................... for your information, that tree probably has more names than you have in yours


but I have no wish to have it on GR ........... so it stays where it is, and I work on it as and when I feel like it.



The number of posts that any of us showing under our profile has absolutely nothing to do with the tree ............... you are deflecting people's attention by intimating that is so.


Most us who have a large number of posts showing have spent years helping others find ancestors, break down brick walls ............ and helping them to learn how to find the information by themselves ...............


for example, by telling them how to find the information on a particular site, OR by explaining where we have found obscure information, in ways that can be easily understood.

It has been OUR desire to do that instead of building a tree on here, or spending all our time on our own families.






I would add that several of us have been told off constantly, by you and others, for saying ................. contact GR at support@genesreunited.co uk .......................


................ we've only been trying to help people get solutions to their problems

It is well known among those who have used the Boards for any length of time, that GR does NOT read the Boards with any great regularity, and that they respond on the Boards even less frequently


Therefore, all that posting on these Boards does is to relieve your own anger, and possibly help others realise that they are not alone in having problems .....................


such posting(s) will NOT result in replies from GR in response to the posts.


You will not get the old tree back by virtue of hundres of postings distributed among 4 Boards ........ because GR simply will not see them!


So, why would we not try to help someone with a problem get better response??



sylvia

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 17 Sep 2012 19:47

Cynthia

I have just contributed to threads already started and given my honest opinion. I have been called all sorts, and can give you chapter and verse if you really want it. Two posters actually thought I was being bullied - and it did seem close to that at times.

The only thread I started was when I saw the announcement thread about how we liked the new tree. I wanted to comment "well, I don't like it" but there was no way anyone could make a comment.

So I copied and pasted it to a new thread and wrote my comment. And 300 more joined in with their thoughts.

I will stop being positive about Genes pre-fiasco and critical post-fiasco when they finally add to their rather ridiculous announcements of 2nd Aug. Hardly anyone is contributing to Estelle's Suggestions threads any more, so surely time has come for the folk in Shoreditch to journey up to Scotland and sort this mess out with the paymasters.

jax

jax Report 17 Sep 2012 20:13

This thread you started has 255 replies and I would'nt be suprised if half of them are from you and I wonder how many others posted more than once on it?

Its a bit like the Genes blog...its looks like a couple of hundred people have replied until you actually read through it and see the same names posting over and over.

As for the suggestions...I made one suggestion which is also something I have been sending emails back and forth to Genes about this week. They dont know me from Adam as I get the same generic response as everyone else

Those threads were set up for Suggestions not for complaints

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 20:26

Dear John



Why are you always up for 'a fight'....


........sigh

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 17 Sep 2012 21:29

Gins I am not up for a fight at all. But I do get upset when someone says they liked the old tree and about four people then tell that person it has been removed and get over it. Really nasty and hateful sometimes and I cannot stand back and see that sort of rudeness and thougfhtlessness. What if it was their cat that had died rather than the old tree had been removed? Would they react the same.

Some of us have used that tree in its different formats for many years WITHOUT COMPLAINT and to have it removed and replaced by something very slow and fiddly was a great shock. It will probably not be a shock to you at all, as it was talked about on Community and there were Announcements.

I think the lack of empathy for people who have used these Community Boards mainly over the years to those who have mainly used the tree is terrible. I can hear you say "well, if the cap fits, wear it" and you may have a good point.

But I came on Community a few weeks ago because I have loved my 9 years with Genes and have helped a lot of people, been helped by others and made a lot of friends. But because I and several others had not been on Community Boards before we have been treated in a very unhelpful way at times. Very high-handed and patronising often.

I found it very difficult to understand why people enjoyed chatting on here when I first came on Community. I said I thought it was banal (a genuine opinion) and was absolutely slated. General Chat is not for me, but I have come to understand a little of what you get out of it. I have loved building my tree. Can you not move a little to understand the pleasures I and others have had on this site for the last 9 years? After all, we are all customers and we must all want Genes to succeed through increased subs and increased hits and therefore increased advertising revenues.

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 21:32

:-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

Cant be bovered to read your........c@ap

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 21:33

Dross

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 17 Sep 2012 21:41

Sylvia

I cannot respond to everything you say. I would only point out that you keep saying so many of your friends like the tree. I think that is a useful point, but I think that argument was known as "reductio ad absurdum" in Logic. Yes, politicians use that a lot and then spin and spin. I suspect you would make a much better politician than me.

I have suggested a more scientific way of moving forward based on asking a random sample of members what they think and what they want. Email and telephone people. Use a market research company if Genes staff cannot do it.

Basically doing what everyone else does. Companies and individuals. Ask round, discuss, decide, do, follow up. Just imagine the Genes Team trying to organise a barbecue without asking who wanted to come, what the weather would be like, who would buy everything, who would cook everything.....

jax

jax Report 17 Sep 2012 21:42

:-D :-D :-D :-D Gins

As everything I have said tonight has been in invisible ink I shall not bother to reply to anything that you say anymore John, as most of it is what Gins has said

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 21:45

Wot...Jax?

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 21:47

;-)

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 17 Sep 2012 21:55

Jax The analysis of my thread and the Blog was done more than a fortnight ago by one of the posters (Francesca, I think) who hated the new format and has since left Genes - like several others. And there has been very little movement since she did that analysis. Yes, your analysis is pretty good and accurate too.

This is not my thread, so why should you expect me to reply. You didn't even ask for a reply from me :-S :-S

Should I reply to Gins? Adult - adult discussion suddenly ceases. Should I :-P :-P?

It doesn't make me feel any better/ Doubt it makes Gins feel any better either.

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 22:01

Is that a rhetorical question?



Oh dear......

JustJohn

JustJohn Report 17 Sep 2012 22:08

I am most definitely not your dear, Gins :-P :-P :-P

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 17 Sep 2012 22:11

John

you posted .............

"I cannot respond to everything you say. I would only point out that you keep saying so many of your friends like the tree. I think that is a useful point, but I think that argument was known as "reductio ad absurdum" in Logic. Yes, politicians use that a lot and then spin and spin. I suspect you would make a much better politician than me."


so you do not believe me, is what you are saying???

you're calling me a liar?

I can assure you that I do know people who are very happy with the tree ................ and only a few of them are my "friends". Others are people I come across on the Boards.

I did not do Philosophy or Logic at university ........ I'm a scientist pure and simple, I deal with facts and figures. So I have no idea what your parading of a Latin phrase means ....................

......... but foreign languages are supposedly NOT TO BE USED on this site. GR can delete postings using them.


as for your other suggestion ................

"I have suggested a more scientific way of moving forward based on asking a random sample of members what they think and what they want. Email and telephone people. Use a market research company if Genes staff cannot do it.

Basically doing what everyone else does. Companies and individuals. Ask round, discuss, decide, do, follow up. Just imagine the Genes Team trying to organise a barbecue without asking who wanted to come, what the weather would be like, who would buy everything, who would cook everything....."



once again, you are "johnny-come-lately"!


The suggestion that GR consult with members via email has been made several times in the past 2 years ..........

...... by those of us who have used the Boards, and have objected to things that were being done


AND THEY HAVE CONSULTED WITH MEMBERS


They have posted surveys (including at least 2 done by Market Research Companies), etc, on the Community Boards, AND started the Suggestions Board where members could post suggestions to improve the site.

Unfortunately, Suggestions has turned into the Complaints Board


They even had days this past summer (July, I believe) when people went to the GR offices in London, and consulted with the staff, being shown what was planned, tried new programmes, etc.

It seemed that each visit involved only 1 member, who received individual attention from 1 or more GR staffers. From what I've heard, all and every comment made by the member was carefully noted.

I know several people who went on those arranged visits ........ and said afterwards that they were impressed with the overall view of what was planned.

I, of course, have no idea how many people took them up on their offer!! I would have loved to do it, but not at the cost of spending over £1000 to get there

Calls for volunteers, and for anyone who wished to do it, were made on the Community Boards ................. unfortunately for you.


They sent emails to a number of members, including me, giving them the chance to test the beta site in late July. Unfortunately, they only allowed us about 2 weeks to test the site ............ but it did include the tree, as well as the new colour scheme.


Problems with your suggestions ..................


1. People change their email address, but do not notify GR .................. this is one of the BIG problems for people wanting to contact others.

I have never changed my email address since I got it in 2003 ........ but it does seem that many people do change, and that it is particularly common in the UK


2. Phone .................. GR does NOT have my phone number, never will have my phone number. Do they have yours????


3. Market Research Company ..................... yep, done that! Unfortunately, for you, it was done through this site, and through the GR Wall on FB.



I have no idea how they selected people to do the beta testing .................. it could have been on the basis of activity on the Community Boards.

Email them, and ask if you want to know.

Going to London was a matter of putting out an open call on the Boards ........... again ask them why they didn't email all tree users, or all members.



They HAVE tried .................. you were out of the loop for finding out.



But please do not call those of us who know more than you about this aspect liars


I really do object to what you posted about me in that message just above.


It seems to be a matter with you that anyone who does not agree with you, is lying, has to be lying because you know better than anyone.


Not impressed!

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 22:11

You normally reply 'parent - child'


;-)

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 22:14

For your education



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Berne


But...that link, gives nothing as to 'Bernes' theories

Gins

Gins Report 17 Sep 2012 22:19

Dear John


You mean you dont love me :-(